For a while, meta progression felt like a clever way to keep games fresh. You’d unlock new gear, perks, or passive bonuses between runs, and that sense of forward motion made failure feel productive. I still remember how ground-breaking this felt the first time I played Rogue Legacy. The game nearly made me look forward to losing, limiting any frustrations I would get from losing. Over time, however, the novelty has worn off. More and more I feel like instead of removing the frustration, meta progression is removing the sense of improvement.
Having meta progression means that you come back stronger after every run, this completely blurs self-evaluation. You lost but you feel like you played well. Do you just need to unlock more stuff or are you not understanding something? It's really hard to say. How do you improve if you don't know how well you are doing? Losing is the usual way for a game to tell you you are doing badly, but this is thrown out the window in games with a strong meta progression. I personally often end up assuming I just have to grind more, which isn't a great feeling. And then, when I succeed, it doesn't feel rewarding because I know I only succeeded because of the meta progression.
Having this meta progression as a crutch also stops you from engaging deeply with a game's mechanics. Not only can you continue playing badly and win eventually, it is also hard to build fundamentals on what is essentially moving ground. Is 100 damage good? Now maybe, but that might not be true soon enough. I've recently had this problem with Ball x Pit, for example. I didn't engage with any of the stats because they all changed so fast that I didn't see the point.
I'm mostly referring to progression that makes you more powerful. I still very much like sideways unlocks which can serve to ease players into the game or to bring more variety in as the game goes on. I think Megabonk handled this pretty well recently, for example. Does meta progression still feel rewarding to you?
I very much dislike roguelikes. It always feels patronizing: aww too bad, if you were good enough you actually could have beaten the game, but let's make it just a little easier. Then it takes so many runs to make an appreciable difference in my abilities or skills that it feels worse than grinding in an RPG (especially because at least with grinding I know I'm going to make progress...I actually might not make any difference with several failed runs).
I also think it's lazy programming. The game is actually only an hour long or less but you get more time out of it because you need to repeat. Add the fact that roguelikes are almost exclusively procedurally generated and it just feels like a cash grab.
The ONLY roguelike I've played any appreciable amount is Hades, and I keep putting it down after a few hours of playtime to pick it up months later. They at least have a lot of interesting dialogue and some element of story but it's not enough to keep me hooked.
If they're not procedurally generated, they're not roguelikes. It's a defining feature. It's also not lazy to define a set of rules that generate good, interesting levels every time you boot it up. I'm basically the only guy who didn't enjoy Hades, and a large reason why is that their level generation is sorely lacking compared to so many others (though Hades is more lite than like) I've played.
Yeah, that's pretty awful game design. Most of the ones i've played didn't feel like that, usually you'd unlock new classes or something (I.e. sidegrades) or unlock harder difficulties.
And of course my favorite ones don't have any meta progression whatsoever, the only progression comes from you learning about the game.
Ok, I'm intrigued. Any recommendations? I'd love to play ones where progression comes from learning about the game.
Crypt of the necrodancer is a good roguelike for this, there is meta-progression if you play the game floor by floor but if you go into the all zones mode everything is unlocked by default. It is possible to defeat every enemy hitless, but you'll need to learn the pattern of movements to do so by yourself.
I loved the Necrodancer Zelda game so I picked up Crypt but haven't played it yet. This is a good kick in the butt to actually try it out.
You're looking for actual Roguelikes then. That's what the genre originally was before it got bastardized.
One of my all time favorite games is Cultist Simulator, but I'll admit it's not for everyone. If you like puzzle type games and don't mind learning about the world by reading lots of little snippets of flavor text, it'll be right up your alley.
Also definitely check out Rogue (the og) and the first wave of games inspired by it. The meta-progression stuff is kind of a new wave thing.
As for newer games, Balatro is really popular right now if you're into more 'puzzle roguelikes'. Most of the things you unlock make the game harder rather than easier, or give you a different angle from which to play the game. There are a handful of things you have to unlock via meta-progression, but so far they seem pretty unintrusive.