If you have two potential opponents, a slightly crazy one and a really crazy one, and you think you're more likely to be able to beat the really crazy one then it's a calculated risk to try and help the really crazy one beat the slightly crazy one for you. Your gamble doesn't pay off if suddenly the really crazy one beats you though.

[–] 93maddie94@lemm.ee 11 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Not only that, the article states that they’ve only succeeded 4 out of 13 times getting the really crazy one nominated. So they’re playing with fire and wasting millions.

[–] archomrade@midwest.social 1 points 9 months ago

And if the four times they succeeded, how many times did they lose to the crazy opponent?

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Which one is the slightly crazy one, would that be the one that's conducting a literal genocide right now?

[–] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)

First of all, define "conducting", second of all, you cannot seriously tell me you believe that Trump, if elected, will stop funneling arms to Gaza

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Conducting as in actively engaged in supplying Israel with weapons used to commit the genocide, running political cover for Israel at the UN by doing vetoes of ceasefire resolutions, and attacking Yemen for interdicting shipping with Israel. I imagine that Trump will continue largely the same policies, but that just shows that both parties are genocidal fascists.

[–] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 5 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

If it's all the same to you, then, I'll vote for the candidate that isn't saying he wants to bring the fascism to our side of the pond. I'm not remotely condoning the genocide in Israel, dgmw, but given the choice between mass death over there, and mass death over there and mass deportations and anti-human rights laws back home, I'll go with the first option.

I hate Joe Biden as much as the next leftist, and I am sincerely begging everyone reading this to vote for someone else in the Democratic primary, but if it comes down to Biden or Trump, please, please tell me that you will vote for Biden instead of staying home

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Vote for whatever flavor of fascism that you feel fits you best. I'm not stopping you. Meanwhile, I'm not an American and I'm just watching your shithole country tear itself apart from the outside.

[–] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social -2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I'm not sure there's anything I can do in this situation that would cause you not to call me a fascist. If that's your position, find a different position.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

If you think that voting for one fascist over the other makes you a good person then maybe take a bit time to think about your morals. Unlike you, I don't need to do mental gymnastics to justify supporting fascists.

[–] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

You're right. Instead of voting for either candidate I should just... what? Move to whatever country you live in? Worse, stay home and stick it to both candidates by showing them I'd be okay with either one?

There are some really stupid liberal takes out there, but "voting for either one makes you complicit in fascism" is by far the stupidest.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Maybe what you should do is consider how your country got where it is today. People like you voted for Biden last election, what has that achieved? Trump is more popular than ever, and Biden is conducting a genocide, while being involved in wars around the globe. If you think voting for Biden again is going to change the trajectory of things then I got a bridge to sell you. You have a fascist state, and both parties represent the ruling class that makes decisions. That's what it means to live in a fascist state, it's not a democracy. Your voting does not matter, it's just a circus to make the feeble minded feel like they have participation. Don't take it from me though, here's what a study analyzing decades of US policy under both parties has to say:

What do our findings say about democracy in America? They certainly constitute troubling news for advocates of “populistic” democracy, who want governments to respond primarily or exclusively to the policy preferences of their citizens. In the United States, our findings indicate, the majority does not rule—at least not in the causal sense of actually determining policy outcomes. When a majority of citizens disagrees with economic elites or with organized interests, they generally lose. Moreover, because of the strong status quo bias built into the U.S. political system, even when fairly large majorities of Americans favor policy change, they generally do not get it.

[–] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

What voting for Biden will accomplish is preventing Trump from entering office and all of my rights from being stripped away, and that is very important to me.

Your take seems to be "I'm so leftist I refuse to vote because voting is pointless." If that's correct, then I'm going to choose to believe you're a right wing troll who's trying to convince me not to vote so your candidate will win, because that's easier than believing that anyone on Earth is so far up their own ass that they've convinced themselves that doing nothing and letting the world get worse on its own is the best political statement they can make.

[–] joenforcer@midwest.social 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Ignore this guy. I'm seeing a lot of "both sides bad" hot takes lately and I get the feeling we're seeing a lot of seeds of doubt disinformation spreading like we got back in 2016. Abandon the troll, he can't vote anyway.

[–] Facebones@reddthat.com 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

"Anybody left of Biden is a troll and worse than Republicans"

Y'all out here claiming to not be fascist but you've got exactly one song to sing and it's fascist as hell. "We aren't fascist we're just the only chance to save this country and anybody left of us is explicitly less than human and will be referred to as such at every possible turn"

[–] joenforcer@midwest.social 1 points 9 months ago

Nobody said any of that. Get over your persecution complex.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Ah yes, just like voting Biden prevented abortion rights from being stripped away, or stopped the concentration camps on the border, or stopped endless wars. Yeah, I totally see why it's so important to vote Biden.

Again, I'll try spell it out for you. I absolutely don't care whether you vote or not. If it makes you feel like you're participating politically, go ahead vote for Biden and feel like you've accomplished something. Your country is still going to be fascist and your right will still be stripped away, but you'll get to feel really smug by having voted. The fact that Americans see voting as peak political participation is absolutely hilarious.

[–] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

WHAT. WOULD. YOU. HAVE. ME. DO. INSTEAD?

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 3 points 9 months ago

Educate yourself on effective methods of building grassroots power. You can read up on how the labour movement organized in US back in the 30s which lead to the New Deal. Organize with people in your local community and help educate them. Join a principled organization that's trying to effect meaningful change.

Again, I'm not telling you not to vote. That's just a straw man you keep erecting here. What I'm actually telling you is that voting on its own doesn't accomplish much of anything.