this post was submitted on 13 Mar 2024
436 points (98.9% liked)
Technology
59534 readers
3223 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
You know what feels wrong? You can easily buy GPS tracking devices on Amazon, but it is illegal to use a GPS jammer in USA, Canada and many other countries.
So companies spying you is fine, but blocking a GPS signal to prevent them from spying can get you a $16,000 fine.
Edit: my thought experiment is not about truck drivers being monitored but more about those fancy new EVs that sell your GPS based data to data brokers... You usually can't turn off the GPS in those EVs.
The reason this needs to be illegal is because jamming the signal is not specific to you. You block your signal but you probably will also be blocking it for anyone else in the vicinity. Plus the way these things work they can create interference for other types of signals as well. It isn't the blocking itself that's illegal, but the interference that you're causing.
I totally understand this and I agree when it comes to jammers this powerful.
My comment was about the low power models which only works for few feet, just enough for to cover your own car. Those are still illegal.
There's no such thing.
GPS signals are incredibly weak and super vulnerable to interference.
We all deserve the right not to be tracked.
The solution to this isn't in GPS jamming the solution to this is in data collection laws. They should absolutely refuse to sell cars that don't have the option to turn off cellular links and GPS tracking.
I'm no GPSjamologist, but if a jammer was running in your car, wouldn't the signal reach other nearby cars while in traffic or does it do it all within the confines of your automobile?
That is exactly why this is illegal. These things can have a range of up to hundreds of meters and thus you're affecting other people aswell and not just yourself.
From the low power models I've seen (which are still very much illegal, same as the most powerful ones) only work between 5 to 10 feet at the very most.
It's like when the companies place trackers in cars, we have to assume they have the best intentions in mind (it is definitely for the customers security right?!)
But if we, the customers, block them from tracking us by jamming the GPS signal, they assume we have the worst intentions in mind (surely we are dirty criminals right?!)
This is why I said it "feels" wrong.
It doesn't work like that.
They broadcast a powerful radio signal on the GPS frequency. You might have to be within 10 feet for it to completely drown out the real GPS frequency, but the waves don't stop they just spread out and get "thinner" with distance. If it completely blocks the signal at 10 feet, it will severely reduce accuracy further out than that. Likely everyone within line of sight of your car will lose accuracy on their GPS.
And that would include airplanes, line of sight is a really long distance up above your car. Airplanes use GPS for critical functions including making sure they don't crash into the ground when they're flying through clouds / rain / fog so you could potentially cause serious problems. Most likely force the airplane to land in a different city — because they will not land if their altitude equipment isn't working... yes they have other ways of measuring altitude but all of them are unreliable, which is why they have GPS. You're taking away one layer of their patchwork system of landing safely and if too many layers are gone then they abandon the landing and fly elsewhere - happened to a friend of mine recently, turned a quick 2 hour flight home into an 18 hour trip.
Not really. Radio power decreases with the square of the distance. So at if "blackout" is at 10 feet then at 100 feet your at 1% of your original power. So realisticly your blocking your GPS signal and partially obstructing signals for 2-3 cars adjacent to you and likely less than that. You wouldn't be reaching any planes without a lot of power and a big transmitter.
Planes avionics are more then sufficient to navigate and fly the plane without GPS. And planes will most definitely land without GPS as a.) GPS isn't the predominant tool for altimetry and b.) a plane has to land or it will crash. GPS is primarily used for navigation of routes and most critically for planning approaches and landings. It enables the tower to send an approach plan directly to a plane. So, really important for packing the skies with planes, but a malfunctioning gps unit isn't going to stop a plane from landing at its designated airport. May stop one from taking off though. This really only applies to big planes. Small planes don't always have gps and don't always land at airports using gps. Still really nice to have so you don't get lost, though.
Accurate GPS is a fairly recent luxury as until the 90s it was made inaccurate by design as only the military could access the full radio spectrum, and only recently has the full constellation of current gen sats been fully deployed. Also interestingly commercial gps receivers won't function beyond 600 mph and/or 60 000 ft to prevent people from using them for missiles. Military ones (in missiles) or if you home brewed it won't have this restriction though.
You are right though. Running a jammer is illegal as hell and you can really fuck other people's day. Especially do not try bring a jammer on a plane. They monitor radio very closely at and around airports. You will be caught and you will be sent to federal "pound me in the ass" prison.
Always an upvote for an Office Space reference even if upvotes didn't matter.
This person jamologises GPSs on the regular.
And yes, I doubt any county would fine you for jamming completely exclusivity (and exactly) only your antenna. It wouldn't even be detectable.
Active jamming is illegal but passive is not. You can block yourself but not others. FYI.
Tape some foil over the GPS antenna.
Yes ,but it could also be that there are multiple gps antenna in your new car.😬
It's not just EVs - most new cars have these tracking devices where they sell your data to your insurance company to be used against you.
How are they getting the data?
They have devices installed which include GPS and an accelerometer. They report back to base via a cellular connection when you drive erratically or aggressively etc.
5G ("Connected Cars" for lower insurance rates have been a thing in central europe for over 20 years) and Wifi.
Just wait until your smart toilet can tell the insurance companies what chemical substances you've consumed so that the can raise your rates, deny your claims, or sell the info to your boss so the company can fire you with cause.
We already live in hell and there's no upper limit on the thermostat.
Well actually there is because the smart thermostats are getting remotely limited by power companies sometimes.
I mean, I knew it was bad already, but please for the love of god stop giving them ideas that they may or may not have yet thought of...
Let me preface this by saying I completely agree that there’s a conflict here, but it’s pretty much required in this day and age.
Let’s look at the current situation: Someone buys a tracker for under $100, sticks it to your car, and they can see you wherever you go. It’s scary, because they can know where you are at all times, and there’s no guarantee you’ll be able to figure out who did it.
Now an alternative where GPS trackers are illegal: Someone buys the generic parts for a GPS tracker, sticks it to your car, and they can see you wherever you go. But also legitimate uses for GPS trackers aren’t possible any longer. Say goodbye to things like tiles and air tags, hell maybe even GPS in your phone since you can get an android device with GPS for less than $100 and load it with software to do the tracking. At best you’ve prevented easy tracking with a huge detriment to the average user, at worst you’ve outlawed GPS tech entirely.
The final alternative is allowing jamming. I don’t have a nice story for this one, because the implications are far reaching. Is your jammer too strong? You’re interrupting other people’s GPS in a huge area, including things like navigation, child/pet/item tracking, time sensitive hardware could be using GPS as well, or things checking elevation. Not to mention, jammers can be used for nefarious purposes as well. Kidnapping a child and jamming a tracker on them, stealing a phone/wallet/keys and blocking its ability to report where it is.
There’s no perfect situation here, but the current state is the least harmful to the general population.