this post was submitted on 16 Mar 2024
259 points (83.6% liked)

Linux

48328 readers
589 users here now

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

Rules

Related Communities

Community icon by Alpár-Etele Méder, licensed under CC BY 3.0

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

I thought I'd chuck windows on my gaming laptop an Acer nitro 5 from last year, to see how it's going do some bits I can't on Linux VR, certain multiplayer games etc.

What a disaster! I've spent the whole day brute forcing drivers and generally dicking about trying to get my setup sorted.

Upon installation, Wi-Fi drivers don't exist, so you cannot use the internet while installing if you're on Wi-Fi. Mint's had this since what 2006? But that's cool, Cortana is here to chat away and not understand any requests. Once finally in the OS after 20 questions that could be considered harassment if it was a person, nothing was ready to go. Every single driver needed sourcing and installing.

People have the cheek to complain about Linux's Nvidia install, literally two clicks on most distros if it isn't already baked in. Go to website find driver, download click click click agree click wait more software click click wait.

Plug in my sound card OK it's a bit old now UA-25 but nothing happens...hmm find obscure video partially install a driver from Vista then cancel the installation program so you can side load a driver from 8,1 but wait there's more disable core isolation to allow the driver to work reboot into a now slightly more compromised OS.

OK plug in wheel again not new stuff G25 oh it works cool. Oh, no H-shifter OK download driver. "Can't find device, ensure it's plugged in". Windows decided it knew better, downloaded its own driver that blocks the official one and loads a steering wheel as a gamepad..GG cool cool.

I do not understand why we still have this image that Windows is noob friendly, it's such a convoluted obfuscated process to do anything. It does worse than nothing, it thinks it's smart enough to carry out tasks on the user behalf and just bork it.

All of these issues are because I don't have the new shiny things, but it really highlighted why I love Linux now if you'll excuse me I'm going to install a distro and play on my 20-year-old peripherals

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] stoy@lemmy.zip 49 points 8 months ago (7 children)

Wi-Fi drivers don't exist

They absolutely exist, but perhaps isn't part of the installer.

Every single driver needed sourcing and installing.

Windows Update solves 95% of that automatically these days, as long as you have internet it will sort it out for you.

Plug in my sound card OK it's a bit old now UA-25 but nothing happens.

This an external USB sound card from 2004, Roland has drivers for it working on Windows 98/ME/XP/2000/Vista/7/8/8.1 it is a 20 year old card, it awesome that it works on Linux, but you can't blame Roland or Microsoft for not supporting a 20 year old device on the latest versions of the OS.

OK plug in wheel again not new stuff G25 oh it works cool. Oh, no H-shifter OK download driver. "Can't find device, ensure it's plugged in". Windows decided it knew better, downloaded its own driver that blocks the official one and loads the steering wheel as a gamepad...GG cool cool.

You are whining about a modern OS not being compatible with a 18 year old steering wheel? You can't expect indefinite hardware support for every random little device you happen to find, this like the sound card above is on you, not Microsoft.

I do not understand why we still have this image that Windows is noob friendly.

None of the above quoted examples are noob issues, this is like you are talking to a person in old english from the mideval times and being mad that a random guy in the middle of Londing in 2024 can't understand you.

A noob would realize that their devices were too old and buy new devices.

Windows is noob friendly in that most software have a Windows version, most people use it, it is a known variable.

Like it or not, Windows is the defacto standard, and that means that is it safe in the perspective of a noob user.

I am saying all of this as an IT guy who has worked professionally with both Linux and Windows, I ran Linux as my main OS for a year or two, I LIKE Linux, but this is not fair critisism of Windows.

[–] beatle@aussie.zone 18 points 8 months ago (11 children)

It’s concerning that you think “just buy new stuff” is reasonable and that Windows should only work on new hardware out of the box.

[–] mindlight@lemm.ee 20 points 8 months ago

It's concerning that you insinuate that 20 year old hardware just works in Linux.

Just because a 20 year old sound card happens to work in your favorite Linux distro doesn't in any way mean that it will work forever or that there are drivers for all 20 year old soundcards.

Where does it say that it's not allowed to create a Windows driver for a 20 year old soundcard?

[–] stoy@lemmy.zip 15 points 8 months ago (1 children)

This is the reality of the computer industry, you don't have to like it, but you have to expect it and work within the reality of the industry.

If OP had complained about how their 10 or 5 year old devices didn't work, then they might have had a point, but 20 years old? That is unresonable.

[–] Dumpdog@lemmy.world 7 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Yes, the reality of the computer industry is that the industry changes. That has quite the dual meaning. I want it to mean it changes for the better...ahem....Open Source

If people want to use a working twenty year old device, it is completely reasonable to complain that Windows doesn't allow that - because that is where Linux STANDS ON ITS OWN MERITS

[–] accideath@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

And still, it is usually possible to get the 20 y/o hardware to run in windows. It might need a bit of trickery but in essence, windows has changed so little under the hood, in the last 20 years…

Recently I acquired a 20 year old film scanner. I had the choice of either buying a new third party scanner software for 100€ or just get the old one working. I found some script that made the old driver identify as something newer and it installed without a problem and has been working since. (Or rather it has worked until recently, when I switched to linux anyways because I want to use the pc for gaming exclusively, since for work related stuff, I have a Mac)

[–] stoy@lemmy.zip 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I consider it more like OP was lucky that the devices worked on Linux, and then reality hit when he got on Windows.

[–] Dumpdog@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

I also consider it lucky but that's not the point. The point is that he has the right to complain about Windows. The point is also that he has the option to ask the Linux community to build a driver to make it work if it didn't work. The point is Microsoft does not give two shits about what OP wants because it has an extremely large share of the market. It no longer has to do good by its customer because it is no longer neccessary.

The point is... he can complain because he tried doing it with Windows and it didn't work. Your mileage may vary.

[–] Dumpdog@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

"Just buy new stuff" is the mindset of the perpetually boring and uncreative. Break shit and build better stuff.

load more comments (8 replies)
[–] caustictrap@lemmy.world 14 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Happy to see lemmy linux community not blindly hating windows and providing facts. Also you can use a package manager like choco to install apps from terminal so you dont have deal with clicking next.

[–] stoy@lemmy.zip 8 points 8 months ago (22 children)

Treating Windows unfairly in these kinds of comparisons is a disservice to Linux as it implies that Linux can't win in a fair comparison.

Windows/Linux/MacOS are all best at different things and for different persons, let the best OS for the task and person win on a fair test

load more comments (22 replies)
[–] sawne128@hexbear.net 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Ridicolous. You act like this is the first person to realise Windows is jank. How many USB steering wheels have you bought during your lifetime?

[–] stoy@lemmy.zip 3 points 8 months ago

None, I was gifted a Sidewinder Forcefeedback steering wheel by my dad when I was 8-9 something, but it used the old gameport.

I don't see how this is relevant though....

[–] nat_turner_overdrive@hexbear.net 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

you can't blame Roland or Microsoft for not supporting a 20 year old device on the latest versions of the OS.

Why not?

You can't expect indefinite hardware support for every random little device you happen to find, this like the sound card above is on you, not Microsoft.

Why not? Linux development is mostly volunteer, and these things are easily compatible with Linux. It seems like you can absolutely expect support for every device, it's just that Microsoft isn't willing to provide it.

None of the above quoted examples are noob issues, this is like you are talking to a person in old english from the mideval times and being mad that a random guy in the middle of Londing in 2024 can't understand you.

Notice that you had to exaggerate a 20 year timespan into a 500 year timespan to make this analogy work?

[–] stoy@lemmy.zip 1 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Why not?

Because it is a paid OS and it's developers are writing code for financial gain, if they are not being paid to write the code, it doesn't get written.

Voulenteers write the code because they want or need to, if there are no drivers for a device in on Linux, you need to write it yourself.

Notice that you had to exaggarate a 20 year timespan into a 500 year timespan to make thisnanalogy work?

Yes, that was deliberate. Have you ever noticed how much faster technology develops compared to languages? That is why the analogy works.

[–] nat_turner_overdrive@hexbear.net 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

The analogy doesn't even work if we ignore the massive difference in time scale. Languages develop organically, they are not managed. Comparing a managed and developed system and a twenty year timespan to an organic language system over a five hundred year timespan is just ridiculous.

Because it is a paid OS and it's developers are writing code for financial gain, if they are not being paid to write the code, it doesn't get written.

They are being paid to write the code. Microsoft is just choosing which code they should write, and it doesn't include any old devices because they want you to buy new devices.

It's perfectly reasonable to expect compatibility, and lay blame when there isn't any. Microsoft simply doesn't provide it.

[–] stoy@lemmy.zip 1 points 8 months ago

I disagree with you, but don't have the energy to keep arguing, this argument has been going on for days, and I made my point back on day one.

[–] sawne128@hexbear.net 1 points 8 months ago

Because it is a paid OS and it's developers are writing code for financial gain,

No shit. But that only explains why Windows is bad. It doesn't mean that Windows isn't bad. We shouldn't give Windows pity points just because poor Billy Gates is addicted to money.

[–] tabular@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

You should expect the creator to abandon the device eventually but indefinite hardware support is possible - that's why it's important that drivers be open source. If enough people care to use the device then a community can be created around it to support it on whatever OS they want.

[–] TheRedSpade@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago (2 children)

old english from the mideval times

That would be Middle English. This is Old English.

[–] stoy@lemmy.zip 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Thank you for correcting me (:

[–] TheRedSpade@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

Lol you're welcome. We all have those things that bother us more than they reasonably should. That's one of mine.

load more comments (1 replies)