this post was submitted on 08 Apr 2024
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So, I almost never play evil characters in most CRPGs - despite the potential fun to be had - and recently I've been thinking about why.

I mean, lawful good is the most boring alignment, evil NPCs can be an absolute hoot (exhibit A: Astarion), stealth murdering villagers for lulz can be entertaining, so why am I always such a freaking goody-two-shoes when it comes to actual plot decisions?

I think a lot of it comes down to lame and crudely-drawn motivations for the evil option in each case.

Your options in most games always seem to boil down to callous, greedy or spiteful: haha no / fuck you pay me / I just blinded your child lol.

And those just aren't satisfying. Especially when you're starting out and forming your character's persona and network, you're pretty much powerless, dumped in a situation where you're casting around for allies and can't afford to burn your bridges.

Running around just randomly being mean to folk like some poster child for Troubled Youth and the need to be Tough On Crime is just... stupid. There's some crude sadism there, and there's some crude avarice, it gets you minor short term benefits but no long-term ones, it gets you hated but not feared, without any real sense of control. Everyone dies or gets led off in chains with big sad eyes, and there's always the strong implication that you failed.

It just feels like a heavy-handed morality lesson where all the bad people are thugs, arseholes and/or developmentally challenged. Apart from being not much fun to play, it's kind of erasing the harm presented by smarter, more insidious kinds of evil.

Being a good guy gets you willing allies, is about personal validation, and feels like success. It gets you the generosity of the people you help, but that's a bonus on top the fundamental win of making the world a shinier better place.

By the same token, being an evil bastard should get you unwilling allies, it should be about power, and it should feel like winning. It gets you benefits you did not earn, but that should be a bonus on top of the fundamental win of tightening the screws on people. That's the actual payoff, but it seems to be the one they always miss.

I think evil playthroughs could be a lot more fun if you had better ways to be evil: blackmail, extortion, sneaky betrayal and brutal revenge. Not ODD, in other words, but NPD. Control, leverage, perfidy. Locking your victims down so they have no choice but to help you, or deceiving them into working against their own interests. Either keep a tight rein on your PR - or let them hate, so long as they also fear.

And another BG3 example: I think the nature of the shadow curse was a misstep, what with the all the grotesque madness and putrid corruption that surrounded it. I think it would have been far more effective as psychological horror, morally corrupt but reeking of purity, so shadowheart would have had believable reasons for wanting to join the gothstapo, and the player could plausibly be sold on it despite everything. But instead the lesson seemed to be that evil is yucky and broken and ew don't get it on you, and that just feels like a missed opportunity to me.

What say you?

Am I an outlier in this? Do the typical offerings feel satisfying to you? Are there games that do relatable, enjoyable evil especially well?

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[–] Tarquinn2049@lemmy.world 15 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

Being evil should feel like cheating and getting away with it. It should feel like the "right" way to play the game if you are playing it that way, your character should essentially "skip dialog", by cutting people off before they say anything heartfelt or by walking away when stuff starts to get too "sappy" for them. You should never hear what the other characters motivations are, they should all feel like one-sided npcs that just complain all the time.

That is what life feels like to selfish people. They don't feel selfish. They feel like everyone else is just missing all these easy and obvious shortcuts and whine and complain too much about nothing.

The npcs that we all get to know and care for, are pretty much impossible to be mean to. You have to actually see them the way an "evil" person would for it to make sense to be evil. They should seem like their plans are way too complicated and risky for no reason other than that they aren't as smart as you and can't see that rescuing the trapped goblin is not only a huge time cost but risky too. Not worth doing, the reward increase is pretty miniscule, and if any party members should die, or the rescue attempt goes wrong at all and just results in alerting the enemies and getting everyone killed... why risk all that for such little pay off? And of course cut them off or not care about their stupid whiny reasons like it's a sentient creature or whatever nonsense they are gonna spew. It's just a plain bad idea, and they aren't getting it. Maybe you should just try to sabotage it so it's not even an option anymore, then they'll come around.

[–] ninjan@lemmy.mildgrim.com 5 points 7 months ago

I feel Mass Effect did at least some of this in terms of allowing you to cut people off and quite a few "shortcuts" of just shooting someone that you can tell from a mile away will be trouble. That game of course has you play someone that obviously can't have reached the position they have by being a selfish asshole so the premise limits what you can do.

[–] exocrinous@startrek.website 1 points 7 months ago

But it's a video game. You can just reload a save until you get it right and get the XP for completing the quest. If you don't save the goblin, you won't be as powerful at the end of the game. It's ludonarrative dissonance.