this post was submitted on 07 Jun 2024
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Cool, then unblock Hexbear and Lemmygrad.
You can't have it both ways, either you're against Communism or you aren't, and blocking every overtly Communist instance makes it obvious.
There's nothing wrong with running things how you want to, but please keep a consistent line or this drama will just move on to a new target, like dbzer0 after .world finally commits to defederating.
We're against tankies, pay attention dude
What separates a Marxist from a tankie? Are Anarchists tankies?
There are no .world communities for Communism, Socialism, or Marxism, so all of the Marxists who wish to contribute must do it on instances like Lemmy.ml, Lemmygrad.ml, Hexbear.net, or dbzer0. Lemmy.world deliberately blocking their users from contributing or even seeing Hexbear or Lemmygrad, and possibly soon even Lemmy.ml, is censorship of Marxists from its own users.
Or is there a secret commie gathering in .world I don't know about?
Authoritarianism
What Marxists get the pass, and which don't?
There are no .world communities for Communism, Socialism, or Marxism, so all of the Marxists who wish to contribute must do it on instances like Lemmy.ml, Lemmygrad.ml, Hexbear.net, or dbzer0. Lemmy.world deliberately blocking their users from contributing or even seeing Hexbear or Lemmygrad, and possibly soon even Lemmy.ml, is censorship of Marxists from its own users.
Return2ozma got banned on Lemmy.world for criticizing Biden.
Or is there a secret commie gathering in .world I don't know about?
Non-authoritarians and authoritarians respectively. It's not that complicated.
Did you seriously not even look? Or do you not understand how the fediverse works
Doubt.
What's the metric to determine between authoritarian and non-authoritarian? Marx and Engels both considered themselves Authoritarian.
1 community with 1 post? Certainly seems like a community welcoming to Marxists! Show me a Marxist community on Lemmy.world that actually has participants, lol.
My point is that the biggest and most active communities are on instances either blocked by .world or are threatened to be.
You can see why Return2Ozma was banned, your admin admitted to it.
You're goofy.
How about "advocacy of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom"?
Accessed via .world, moderated by a .world user. I also moderate an openly pro-communist community from .world, !196@lemmy.blahaj.zone.
You don't understand how Lemmy works.
He was banned from c/politics, not from .world. The c/politics rules aren't .world rules. He made a post from .world literally a few hours ago.
(I don't agree with the ban either, btw)
Cool, then Hexbear and Lemmygrad aren't tankies by your definition. Go over and ask them about that. Oh wait, you can't.
Communism is a lemmy.ml community, which is my point. Lemmy.world does not host any communist communities despite being the largest instance, and it seems like they may defed from .ml soon, leaving .world with nothing. I'm not sure if you are intentionally not seeing my point, or if you genuinely don't get it.
196 is an Anarchist community, not a Marxist one. Supporting Marxism can get you banned there.
I didn't say Ozma was banned from the entirety of .world, just that posting anti-Biden articles will catch you a ban on .world, further proving their general anti-Marxist stance.
To be fair I didn't see anything all that bad when I skimmed Hexbear but clearly Lemmygrad has no shortage of CCP and Stalin apologists.
Either way, I don't know why you're whining at me about a decision I didn't make or agree to, and has nothing to do with why I don't approve of tankie rhetoric.
Which is accessible by .world users, so why would we need a new one that isn't as active? Lemm.ee doesn't have an ALTA community, do you think they all hate ALTA?
We're a leftist community. I've never seen someone get banned for supporting Marxism, and I'd invite you to post to your heart's content but the crux of your issue seems to be that we have very different definitions of authoritarianism/tankie posting.
Lemmygrad has a fairly standard Marxist stance. What do you count as "apoligism?"
Lemmy.ml hasn't defederated from ATLA communities. Lemmy.world having no Marxist communities and showing signs of defederating from Lemmy.ml sends a pretty clear anti-Marxist stance, especially when they defederated from Marxist instances already.
196 does not advertise itself as anti-Marxist, but very quickly Marxists get branded "tankies" and get banned. It's easy to pretend to support Marxists and allow Marxists but then brand them tankies if they take standard Marxist stances. That's why it's better to just call 196 an Anarchist instance, if Marx himself would be considered a Tankie.
CCP/Stalin apologists, people who defend the CPP/Stalin.
Still has nothing to do with my disapproval of tankie rhetoric. Personally I think everyone should be given a chance to have a civil discussion even if I disagree, but defederation isn't my decision.
I've never seen a shred of evidence for this, and I can see the modlog. I'm open to checking it out and advocating change if you actually have something to support this, but frankly, you running defense for Lemmygrad doesn't exactly lend you any credibility.
If you post Marxist/communist/socialist stuff without a hint of tankie shit or authoritarian apologetics and it gets you banned, you have it here on record that I'll personally defend you and advocate for change in the community.
What counts as defending? Like, if I say I think it's cool that China has high speed rail, am I a tankie? That's why I am asking.
As for 196, I try to avoid discussing anything political there except for the most benign and uncontroversial takes possible, because that's what that community tends to want.
Where do you draw the line between authoritarian and Marxist? What good Marxist movements have existed that don't count as authoritarian to you? This all seems vibes-based.
You've gotta be being deliberately obtuse.
Everyone does that to different degrees, where is the line? Is it a vibe check?
If you genuinely still don't understand what it means to defend authoritarianism, I can't help you. It doesn't get more specific than what I've already given you.
Otherwise, I'm not going to keep entertaining willful ignorance.
That's bullshit; being communist isn't a free pass to be antisocial. History has an example of literal pedophiles organizing under the banner of communism: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliance_90/The_Greens#:~:text=Until%201987%2C%20the%20Greens%20included,dealing%20with%20child%20sexual%20abuse.
Is that why Hexbear and Lemmygrad were blocked? Hexbear being one of the largest and most active overtly trans-positive instances, and Lemmygrad being the largest explicitly Marxist Instance?
You're just calling them pedophiles now rather than even entertain the idea that .world just doesn't like Communists.
You're treating Communism like liberals treat gay people, fine and supportive until they actually have to see gay people and complain about representation in TV and movies.
Blocked for being antisocial? Yes. If it was about being trans then Blahaj would have been blocked a long time ago.
If anything, I'm complaining about bad communist tropes dominating the media representation, and by that I mean leninists.
It isn't a trope if the vast majority of Marxists also agree with Lenin worldwide, lmao.
It's blatantly anticommunism, not just because people are "antisocial." You're like a republican with a token gay friend that complains about the LGBTQ community dominating everything these days, lol. It's sad, just own up to being anticommunist.
When I say antisocial behavior I'm not talking about ideology but historical actions like banning people posting literal facts about tiananmen or any other historical event. When responses fail to acknowledge actual history that is brought up, then it is likely working from a reactionary framework.
Then ban the users, don't defed. As it stands, .world is anticommunist and censors all communists it can.
Many other servers asked them to clean house but they refused, hence the defed. Wild how the ones deleting and banning users are the victims of censorship here 🙄
.world defeded from Hexbear before they were ever federated, lol
And? I was over at Blahaj when this stuff went down so admittedly things played differently in different parts of the fediverse. Even so, the details of how things escalated should not distract from the behavior that is central to the conflict: ML engaging in censorship motivated by personal ideology instead of making an attempt to be objective.
Are .ml's users complaining, or .world's?
Come on dude, I just mentioned Blahaj. Don't pretend only .world has a problem with .ml . And again, the two complaints of censorship raised by the two are not the same. The majority of communities wants moderation to at least attempt to be objective towards history.
What makes you say .ml isn't attempting to be objective?
Deleting and banning those who discuss tienamen square is pretty damning IMHO.
There's a difference between trying to discuss the Tian'anmen massacre and repeating debunked figures like saying 10,000 people were killed, like the BBC did, instead of looking at the vast majority of historical reports that state 300-2000 were killed.
If the discussion is about how a government that massacres its own people and censors even searches of it is bad, then no, rectifying that difference in number doesn't make the objection go away.
The CPC publicly makes statements about the Tian'anmen massacre, it isn't as censored as people believe it to be in the west.
You should hate South Korea more than China then, considering more people are estimated by the west to have been slaughtered by the state in Gwangju than in Tian'anmen.
Nobody thinks it was a good thing that people were massacred.
Dude, I literally ran a Firefox plugin at one time that gave me the "Great Firewall of China" experience. But just in case, I went over to Baidu and did a search and here's the official story you speak of (and the only one told in the search results): https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/opinion/2011-07/14/content_12898720.htm
The article does not address how many people were killed or even whether violence occurred.
I would call those results to be censorship.
Edit: I don't like the South Korean state either, but not more or less, just different. I'm not here to say which state is more morally justified than another, even when they're at end stage capitalism.
I didn't say it wasn't censored, just that it wasn't as censored as you may believe. searching for Tian'anmen Square comes up with results for me.
What did you try to search?
Well now that we have established that it is as censored as I believe because I have first hand experience, can we circle back to massacres and censoring said massacres are bad and not what we want in a social media service?
Wait, we didn't establish that. I got results, and shared them. Searching June 5th Tian'anmen Square comes up with results, as does june 5th tian'anmen massacre.
Either way, yes, censorship is wrong, so is intentionally lying about geopolitical adversaries.
I have found that the results from Baidu do not state whether violence happened or how many were killed in regards to the massacre. The event also seems absent from the Baidu encyclopedia: https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E5%A4%A9%E5%AE%89%E9%97%A8/63708
This is more than a government that doesn't want to acknowledge any violence on their part, it acts to silence discussion around the event and the .ml community's actions replicate that effect (which damns any objectivity the mods have).