this post was submitted on 27 Jun 2024
239 points (96.5% liked)
Technology
59495 readers
3135 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
They will still keep them green. You know how teens react to those bubbles.
I do, and I couldn't care less. I think a visual indicator that tells me "hey, this is an iMessage" or "hey, this is an SMS/RCS message" is a very good thing to have.
You don't care, because you're an adult, what you or I see as a simple visual indicator is yet another thing that HS teens will use to bully and peer pressure with.
But you should care in the sense that Apple is exploiting teens still developing brains and maturity with dark patterns to get them "hooked for life" in a way.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted. The problem isn't the fact that the indicator exists. A lot of it is because it's an ugly green bubble, and Apple refuses to change it because bullying kids is great marketing for Apple.
I doubt the bullying would be any different if it was a beautiful red (or whatever is considered a pretty chat bubble) instead.
And even if it was a blue bubble, the bullies would find another reason to bully someone.
I get the peer pressure part and sure Apple might be exploiting that in America, but in the past it was clothing brands or whatever it is now. Making the bubbles the same color (or even bringing iMessage over to Android completely) would get rid of a single symptom, not of the root cause.
Clothing gets you negative comments. iMessage gets people to exclude you from group chats or even text messaging completely. It's become far more socially acceptable to isolate someone because of what they don't own.
Even if this were the same level of bullying, the amount of resources that Apple needs to fix this is negligible compared to clothing companies or whathaveyou. You can't update a shirt. You can easily update the color of a bubble or implement an industry standard. Apple refuses to even try to fix this issue, and in my eyes, they're 100% complicit in enabling bullying.
Clothing (or other things, clothing was just an example) does get you excluded from a group. The only reason a bully would want to "include" the bullied person in their group is so they can bully them more.
I agree that they could open up iMessage to competitors with relative ease and that this would be a good move. Not because it would seriously stop bullying, but because it would make it a little bit easier to find a common messenger to use (we don't really have that problem in my home country, as most people use WhatsApp, which is multi platform).
What I'd hate is if Apple removed all indicators that what I'm sending or what I already sent is an SMS/RCS message instead of an iMessage. It shows me what features work for that particular conversation, and if I'm roaming in a region where sending SMS is not free, I want to know when I'm about to send one.
I agree, for both send and receive since ios can send messages differently (text vs imessage)
That's how I react to those bubbles. It means any image I send is going to be compressed to shit and be utterly unrecognizable. Messages will sent out of order or not at all. Group chats are completely fucked.
I'm sure Apple shares a lot of the blame, but holy shit how is this not solved in 2024. I shouldn't have to resort to spam filled shitware from Meta to get remotely modern messaging cross platform
Hope rcs pans out and soon
Apple doesn't "share a lot of the blame." The blame belongs solely to Apple and their insistence on a closed ecosystem. They intentionally hamstring any cross functionality with competing devices, even features as simple as text messaging. It's important for Apple to foster a cult-like mentality among their consumers.
RCS was a dumpster fire for years. Only in the past couple of years has Google stepped up to be the centralized force in making it work as envisioned.
quick edit to say I agree this could’ve been avoided if Apple had made iMessage for Android, but I just wanted to point out the blame is shared by poor implementation across the board.
Apple has no obligation for users outside of their ecosystem. Apple saw the landscape of carrier messaging being terrible, and they made iMessage to help their customers communicate with one another better, while continue to maintain support for basic carrier communication. They have now updated to offer RCS, the current modern carrier messaging standard, which as demonstrated is still fragmented and outright garbage.
There is a Google proprietary protocol that’s based off of RCS, but as demonstrated by the Android market, even Android devices doesn’t do that — so Apple isn’t likely to (and frankly shouldn’t) do it to give more information to Google (even on the alleged promise of E2EE, it allows Google to know who is communicating with who at what time, and potentially roughly where via cell tower origination).
Apple is not a charity and has no need to open up their proprietary protocol designed to better their clients’ communications to non-clients. Want to make a phone call? Pay your carrier. Want to have electricity? Pay your power provider. Want to use iMessage? “Buy your mom an iPhone”.
Apple management has explicitly stated they do not want to support better compatibility between Android and iPhone, their response when asked what parents who buy cheap Androids for their kids should do it was to buy them iPhones. Many of the problems are very easy to fix on Apple's side and keeping them problematic is intentional.
That’s the point. It’s not Apples problem. Apple supports basic carrier messaging. If someone buys an Android, Apple users can message them just as anyone who buys a Windows Phone or BlackBerry.
It’s either an Android problem — getting fragmented service and no E2EE — at which point don’t buy an Android; or a user preference problem — “Inprefer iMessage” — at which point buy an iPhone.
Vendors on both sides have gone up and down the market to cover the spectrum, it’s not even a “can’t afford the premium feature” problem anymore as it were decade ago.
See the last sentence of my original comment.
It's about the social phenomenon around the imessage chat colors, which is intentional on Apple's part. You must have a social in-group and an out-group. To be in the in-group, you must purchase the correct products, subscribe to the correct services.
CONSUME
People trying to claim capitalism / consumerism is missing the point — no one is getting a magical piece of PCB for free; vendors on both sides have gone up and down market that they’ve basically all covers the spectrum, and people make their own choice as to which platform they’re on.
People trying to assign blame on Apple is missing the point — it’s the android users having sub par fragmented (depending on carrier) service that doesn’t have E2EE by default, whom desperately needs something better.
If people chose Android are finally realizing they don’t have proper service, then they need to petition their platform vendor to put in something better (arguably Google has, but their reputation precedes them in these circles), or vote with their wallet when it comes time for their next device.
Dude... Who here is asking for "a magical piece of PCB for free?" I'm assuming that means you think people are asking for free phones?
For one, Google never wanted to implement or run RCS, the carriers were supposed to do that specifically to prevent the fragmentation issue. But they couldn't get off their ass, even after Google spent years pushing them to do so.
For two, even after Google said fuck the carriers I'll do it myself, Apple was invited to participate in its implementation and Apple refused. They could have worked with Google to implement RCS across all devices. They didn't because they want to keep people locked into their ecosystem. They had a great opportunity to ensure all the privacy and encryption features were implemented how they liked.
Again, Android problem, not Apple problem.
Apple stated clearly they’re keen on working with GSM Consortium (who owns RCS and has more sway on carriers than Google does) on bringing E2EE to the masses.
If Google’s reputation of finding new and exciting ways to sell targeted ads doesn’t precede them, then they might have a better chance of getting a first party solution like Apple does with iMessage. But alas, Apple is not responsible for Google’s business plan or public image, and that problem is Google’s to solve.
If that were true, RCS would have been implemented by carriers LONG ago like they were supposed to (the original spec was launched in 2008), well before imessage came out in 2011 and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
But you know who actually does have a TON of sway with Carriers? Apple. You know who probably could have actually gotten them to implement RCS? Apple. Apple could have solved the RCS dilemma even before Google decided to do things themselves.
Apple didn't even need to do much, just drop the mere hint that if carriers didn't start implementing RCS they might stop selling the iPhone through them and they would have bent over backwards to get it done.
They didn't because iMessage is just another tool to keep people locked into their ecosystem, and they've admitted as much. And any excuse of "Oh we wanted to work with the GSM consortium blah blah blah" is just that, an excuse for Apple fanboys like you to latch onto and parrot.
Apple couldn’t get the carriers to do shit. They blocked eSIMs for years on iPhones, meanwhile the iPad eSIM implementation was happily allowed.
Even up to the iPhone launch nobody wanted to collaborate with Apple(especially for the voicemail) except Cingular.
They didn’t because it’s not their problem. Other platforms’ users have that problem; Apple users have iMessage.
You buy a Windows phone, you buy a blackberry, you buy a flip phone, you’re using carrier messaging, or whatever app you can run on those platforms.
You buy an Android and suddenly you feel entitled to demand Apple to go to bat for you on carrier messaging? That’s a very entitled hot take.
Apple users have iMessage… amongst other third party chat apps that works fine across different platforms. Apple doesn’t have any obligations to go to bat for other platforms on carrier messaging that they already support.
There is no alternative that they could choose.
RCS is absolute horseshit unless you send it to Google, which is absolutely unacceptable.
There's no shortage of options; the problem is getting the people you're talking to to agree on one you like. I find Signal strikes a good balance between goodness and ease of use, and many people I know who aren't tech or privacy nerds use it.
Google had the chance to make its Hangouts messaging app dominant when it was, briefly the default SMS client on Android devices. They threw that away following pushback from carriers.
I'm glad Google doesn't have the dominant messaging service, but I find it bizarre anybody still uses SMS when there are so many internet-based options. I have six, and if somebody really wants to use another, I'll probably add it.
It's hard to read the text against a green background too. I'm so tired of Apple.
Fun fact: It doesn't even meet Apple's own standard for text contrast!