this post was submitted on 16 Jul 2024
571 points (93.6% liked)
Technology
59495 readers
3081 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I don't. Look, we already had this discussion years ago. You don't feel bad for the stormtrooper, or their families when you blow up the deathstar. They knew what they were getting into.
I’m sure there are plenty of people who started at SpaceX before we all truly knew the monster musk is. Also, the work they are doing is incredibly important. It’s hard to give that up. It shouldn’t be this hard to empathize with people
Knowing many people who've worked for him, you have about 6 months at a MuskCo brand company max before you really know what a piece of shit he is, and either a.) leave ASAP, b.) convince yourself it won't be so bad and hang on for ~2 years, or c.) fall into the cult of personality and believe that Daddy Elon loves his little proles and cares very much about all the hard work you're doing [EMPLOYEE NUMBER HERE].
The absolute last stop on the "Musk is Tony Stark but IRL epic gamer Redditor and likes weed and Rick and Morty!" train was when he called that cave diver a pedophile. It was apparent well before then, but anyone acting like they had no idea what a piece of shit he was after that either didn't hear about it, or was willfully ignorant because they wanted to continue pretending that basing their entire personality around a billionaire wasn't a terrible idea.
I thought that spacex was "incredibly important" once. Now I realize it's a fast track to a more fucked earth. By the time we get to "planet B" "planet A" is going to be a fiery ball of shit.
I’m not saying SpaceX isn’t without valid critiques, but if you don’t see the value of reusable rockets and can’t even give them credit for spearheading that, I’m not sure what else to say. Make no mistake I think Elon Musk is a bigoted piece of shit, but I can also acknowledge that SpaceX has done important work
Yes, the rocket is reusable. The fuel is not, and by lowering the cost per kg of space freight, it has driven more usage of rockets. Which use non-renewable fuel at astounding rates and make huge emissions for a minor payload total.
We’re seeing extreme temperatures and unseasonal weather events already - James Webb is cool and the ISS does need service missions but Starlink is just more orbital trash waiting to happen.
Rocket launches are not why climate change is occurring.
It’s not helping. We aren’t going to get a “deus ex machina” moment on righting damage done to the environment. Yes focus on the bigger goals and pollution sources, but this is a trend in the wrong way to enlarge Elon’s money pile.
You’re missing the forest for the trees and way over estimating how much pollution rocket launches put out.
We have to leave the planet, which means we need to practice so to speak, and those rockets are the only way we are going to get out there right now. The pollution produced by them is well worth it.
We need to leave the planet? For where?
For a planet that's completely incapable of sustaining life?
Do you realize that it'll take many, many orders of magnitude more resources, time, and effort to make literally any other celestial body within several years of space flight of us capable of sustaining life than it will be to fix the habitable planet we have right here?
We're not getting off this rock without stabilizing it enough to sustain us long-term first. And by then, we won't need to leave. Either way, though, evacuating isn't a viable solution.
And if you don't believe me, go talk to some biologists.
Gotta do it eventually dude or this will be our grave.
It’s strange to me that you can have the foresight to see the existential threat that is climate change, but not the risk of having all of our eggs in one basket.
You’ve also moved the goalposts. Your original argument was that they pollute so much and use so many finite resources that they’re bad. Is this no longer your argument?
You’re never going to convince me that space exploration is something we should stop.
What the hell are you talking about? Where did I contradict that argument, and hell, where did I even make it in the first place?
I said that it will take far more resources to terraform and colonize another planet than to fix this one. I didn't even touch on the pollution and use of finite resources (which is also an issue, mainly because of how much we're doing it)
I'm all for space exploration, we have so many breakthroughs that are usable here on Earth through it that not doing it at all would be foolish. But you're kidding yourself if you think we're going to succeed in leaving.
This planet will be our grave, sadly. We might, if we're very lucky and can actually change what we're doing finally, make that be a very distant thing.
But settling another planet, as much as I would absolutely love to see it, is likely never going to happen just from the sheer logistics of it, not to mention the fact that we still haven't managed to build a self sustaining and isolated ecosystem that can support humans indefinitely on this planet, where we can truck everything to the site rather than have to shoot it into space a tiny amount at a time and then have it spend 9 months to 2 years to reach the nearest planet
And unless we want to save a tiny population living under domes, we'd have to extend that to an entire planet that's far, FAR further from our target than this one which already sustains life, and which doesn't have a magnetosphere in the first place so even if we managed to give it a thick enough atmosphere with the right blend for us, it'll simply bleed away into space anyway.
And unless you're thinking of going to the hellhole that is Venus, the next nearest potential candidate is probably going to be one of the moons of Jupiter, which have plenty of their own issues.
Starlink will never be orbital trash in any meaningful way. If everything failed today, they'd all deorbit within 5 years. It's only in higher orbits where shit gets stuck for decades or hundreds of years.
You're right. They'll be atmospheric pollution. That's what "burn up on reentry" means.
Well in that case, 100% of things that we've launched into space are either
1: Space trash
2: Atmospheric Trash
3: Ocean Trash
Except for the 1st stages of F9 and it's fairings, and one or two first stages of some other small start ups.
Edit: sorry and the shuttle. In retrospect with the amount of refurbishment it required it wasn't really "reusable" per say, but it did avoid being ocean trash.
That does seem to be the point this thread is making: Going to space is really bad for Earth's environment. SpaceX and starlink are just accelerating that.
I'd like to see what people's reactions would be if we put all the 6,219 starlink satellites in a pile on the ground and lit them on fire. Would they say "fuck yeah! Fast internet!" or would they say "are you out of your mind?"
And they plan on having 12,000 or something each lasting about 5 years.
Do you know what all those puffy clouds coming out of the engines at engine cut off and start up are? Kerosene or methane and oxygen. Do you know what injecting methane and kerosene into the upper atmosphere does to the planet? No, no one does because it wasn't ever a problem when there were 5 launches a year. Now that there's 5 launches a month we're getting to the find out stage.
Same with starlink. What does aerosolized aluminum (and whatever else is "just burning up" on reentry) do to the upper atmosphere? When there were one or two satellites a year how would you know? Now that there's several a month (20 in the last launch that didn't make it up) we'll find out.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say none of that will prove beneficial to life on earth. But yeah, the rocket is pretty cool.
I am against Starlink just fyi
Love the launcher, hate the payload?
lol yeah I guess
But they didn't. The guy had me in the first half when he cried because Buzz Aldrin didn't like him. Elon wasn't always so obvious with his bullshit. There was a time when he looked minted as a purveyor of a bright future - the mask slipped.
The mask has been off for at least 8 years.
No sympathy for anyone who still stans that phony.
When did he call that rescuer a "pedo"? Because that's when I changed my mind on him forever.
Edit: It was June 2018.
Then he fired his PR team not long after that. He pushed out all the people getting paid to help him not look like an idiot.
Musk should likely have all his storage media searched, just randomly accusing people of things like pedophilia for no reason is often projection, "don't look at me, I clearly can't be one as I'm the most vocal about being against them, look over here instead" or whatever
What Elon did was terrible, but it wasn't "for no reason"
The dude attacked him in the media, and Elon is petty and vindictive.
Was the harshness of Elon's response representative of the attack? Absolutely not. But it wasn't nothing.
The guy told it like it was. It was a PR stunt and nothing more. His submarine was rigid and stood zero chance of navigating the intricate cave system, of which the caver was an expert. Elon didn't like his sub (and him by extension) being ridiculed, so he used his social media clout to make an unsubstantiated and nigh libelous claim that the guy was a pedophile.
Whatever Elon's retaliatory reasons are for his vindictiveness, a rational person can safely assume that those reasons are tied to his hollow soul and crêpe-paper-thin ego.
He was bullied as a child, he probably never got over it and the power has gotten to his head.
I was bullied as a child, and I now work as a math teacher in Title I schools and engage in mutual aid. What's your point? Why are you making excuses for that cunt?
It's not an excuse.
Some people grow up and move past an experience, some people don't. Some hold onto that hatred and become the bully themselves.
How you handle situations makes you who you are, but it's up to you to do that.
Elon doesn't need you as his Lemmy apologist. Get wrekt, son.
Yeah see there is a thing called disproportionate response.
If you've got a guy with 100 million followers talking shit about someone else and making wild accusations against them against another person who has practically no following at all, then the response is far too powerful for the issue at hand.
It was 100% a disproportionate response, I wasn't saying otherwise.
Well, good to know there's no way forward but your way.
I mean, the stormtroopers were largely either conscripted, or they were clones who were raised in it. Very few were actual mercenaries or people who had a choice to join or not. I still feel bad for them.
Stormtroopers is fair. What about maintenance staff?
What about prisoners?
Does Elon Musk profit off slave labor from prisoners?
Considering the mining industries for many of the rare earth metals needed? Yeah he does.
Plus there's the whole apartheid emerald slave mine thing, which is how daddy made the money he got to play with.
I don't think any of those people are being relocated to Texas.
Lucky for them, eh?
I'm curious, is it reasonable to blame employees for their employers actions like this? I mean to a certain extent perhaps, depending on your position in the company (like if you are part of upper management then you are more responsible obviously).
Many people are just trying to get by and getting jobs is not easy. Is it okay to blame a person for working somewhere if they don't have much other choice? Capitalism kinda forces you to work within the system like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z6SFL5fCCg
"Innocent contractors"
Wtf 🤮
In my book it doesn't matter if you are building or operating the gas chambers.
I think Andor settled this fairly definitively.
I'm a little surprised that this comment has gotten so many upvotes.
Would you apply this same logic to the real world? For example, imagine if a manufacturing facility for Lockheed Martin or General Dynamics was bombed and thousands of working class Americans died. These people are building bombs that are being used in an ongoing genocide.
Would you consider this a heinous terrorist act, or a noble strike in the fight for freedom?
Noble strike.
Death to american hegemony.
what about the restaurants that feed those workers? or the farmers that grow the crops? or the worker's families
Since you are maliciously leading it in this direction I will intentionally skip to the end.
We should kill every human because we share DNA.
Happy ?
Especially when the job market contracted with all the IT company layoffs, some people may be stuck in jobs they hate because opportunities are few and they'd rather not be homeless or have their kids not have food and so on.