I actually started on Kbin.social, but then it got shut down, Kbin died and now fedia.io seems to be the largest one running MBin. I like the interface on MBin and I guess it's good to have a diverse fediverse with different services, but at the same time, why use mbin when everyone congregates on lemmy instances? The local magazines on fedia are for the most part, quite dead, when compared to lemmy collections. In the end I feel like there aren't enough people to go around to support many more services like MBin and Piefed.

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[–] DarkThoughts@fedia.io 0 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I believe it's probably more that it's extremely difficult, and that developers facing the reality of the situation might come across as dismissive when responding to ideas and suggestions.

The problem is that them being on a political extremist side of things makes it incredibly hard to take their word for it and to take them at face value. The most trouble Lemmy communities are facing is coming exactly from the spaces that align not just with the devs views, but in case of Lemmy.ml and Lemmygrad even the ownership. So when more moderate lefty instances like Beehaw complain about the lack of moderation tools to handle the trolls from those places, it might just be that the devs are completely fine with what's happening.

[–] maegul@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

While the political friction is very real, my perspective on the whole dynamic is that the anticipation of or focus on the friction is one of the biggest source of problems.

For instance, you cite beehaw and state that it's the extreme leftist instances that are the most troublesome ... when beehaw famously defederated from lemmy.world ages ago, as well as sh.itjust.works, while the admin of lemm.ee has said, controversially for some of their users I believe, that they don't really understand all of the fuss over hexbear. Meanwhile, lemmy.ml tries to stay widely federated AFAICT, and from what I've gathered, the admins have even gotten in hot water with their lefty users for not defederating from more right-wing-ish instances earlier, and then are often criticised for their active moderation on their own instance.

Point being that it's all probably a bit of a mess that doesn't neatly align with left v right.

I'd bet that the biggest problems with the core devs approach to moderation tooling is that they have like making them and don't like what they perceive to be a culture of demanding open source users (which I've come to understand over time actually).

[–] DarkThoughts@fedia.io -1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

What?

when beehaw famously defederated from lemmy.world ages ago, as well as sh.itjust.works

They've been defederated from lemmy.ml, lemmygrad and hexbear for much longer though.

while the admin of lemm.ee has said, controversially for some of their users I believe, that they don't really understand all of the fuss over hexbear.

I guess that explains the heavy Tankie presence on that instance, which I've negatively noticed as well.

I'm not sure what your point here regarding Beehaw is though.

Meanwhile, lemmy.ml tries to stay widely federated AFAICT, and from what I've gathered, the admins have even gotten in hot water with their lefty users for not defederating from more right-wing-ish instances earlier, and then are often criticised for their active moderation on their own instance.

And here you lost me completely. What right-wing-ish instances are we talking about? Because I have yet to see anything that even mildly steers into that direction. And what moderation? Banning non far left positions and those who talk back against far left disinformation? Just look at their news sub and how much mod abuse & disinformation there is. Tankies can freely insult people and the mods do absolutely nothing. Correct disinformation and you get banned. If that's an issue for the admins, then they could actually do something about it, since they literally own that instance.

and don't like what they perceive to be a culture of demanding open source users (which I've come to understand over time actually).

"Demanding open source users" is a nice way of framing community demands negatively. lol

[–] maegul@lemmy.ml 3 points 3 months ago

They’ve been defederated from lemmy.ml, lemmygrad and hexbear for much longer though.

They're not defederated from lemmy.ml

I’m not sure what your point here regarding Beehaw is though.

That they're defederated from lemmy.world, a centrist/mainstream/reddit-like whatever instance, which plenty of others have trouble with too, indicating things aren't as simple as "left instances are trouble".

What right-wing-ish instances are we talking about?

It's apparently historical, so prob 2020 or so.

“Demanding open source users” is a nice way of framing community demands negatively. lol

Well it can cut both ways I think. That open source burn out is real and that open source has attained a strangely consumerist culture is real. If you're not aware you may not be plugged in enough. That of course is no excuse to neglect your community, I'd likely agree with you that the lemmy devs could do significantly better on that front. I think I've even seen them admit as much.

[–] cabbage@piefed.social 1 points 3 months ago

Yeah, they certainly don't have the same sense of urgency as the rest of us. I don't think it's bad intent as such, it's just that their priorities are very different.

Don't get me wrong - this is a massive part of the reason why I've never bothered to use Lemmy. So I absolutely think you're on to something.