this post was submitted on 09 Sep 2024
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Reality for mastodon, I think, is that the "migration" is basically over, and has been for over a year now. The Brazilian move to BlueSky (and not mastodon) highlights it very well.
Recalibrating on what we want and can do with the fediverse, as well as how central we want the mastodon project to be, are the best things to do now.
For me, it seemed like Gargron didn't really know how to speak about the lack of a Brazilian migration to mastodon in favour of BlueSky, and handle a new moment of actually dropping in popularity or perceived relevance (having been the underdog then rising start for a while), which I take as a cue that being the dominant center of the fediverse isn't a natural fit for Gargron and his project, to the point where the fediverse may have just outgrown it.
So, random thoughts:
As for the threadiverse (lemmy, piefed, mbin, nodebb etc), it's always struck me that group based structures (EG, lemmy communities) seem to work better over federation. Account migration from instance to instance is simpler, in part because the user is not the central organisation. Which instance you're on doesn't really matter that much. Also, blocking a whole community seems a useful middle ground between blocking a user and defederating a whole instance at the instance level, and ditto with community level moderation which can operate over federation. Additionally, the little technical talk I've seen on the issue seems to indicate that moving a community from instance to another might actually be quite viable.
If true, then community building might be best started with the group based platforms. Maybe an ecosystem of formats that involves all of them other than microblogging might work well?? Perhaps user-based content could take on a different structure from what microblogging does ... perhaps something like what BlueSky does could be adapted to fuse user-based structures into group-based platforms like lemmy (IE, your content exists in a pod which you can own and which is portable, which is then sucked up into various public feeds depending on what permissions you provide)??
Things like private communities, group chats, blogs, wikis (and RSS feed management?) intuitively seem to me to pair well with group-based platforms and community building.
The best we can do with current tools is just trying to tie multiple platforms/views together I think. Programming.dev runs a bunch of different services under the same umbrella like that, and I’ve setup something similar on bestiver.se / xxxiver.se
I think having communities that consist of a group of fediverse services like that are probably the way forward in the short term. I kinda want to package that up as a ‘Verse as a Service sort of thing, but I’m still not sure if anybody will be willing to pay for it.
Definitely interesting idea (I hadn't really quite seen it formalised like this)! I've kinda had vague similar-ish thoughts along these lines too.
Any chance you'd be willing to go into any more detail, or point to specifics? I'm not familiar with what's going on over on bestiver or programming.dev in the way of service-type things.
I think a new #platform needs to emerge from this
As in a new one would be necessary to do the sorts of things I'm suggesting ... or the current moment requires a sort of rebranding and pivot that is best served by a new platform?
Both of those reasons are valid. I think a lot of people are noticing general difficulties and lack of seamless interoperability between the platform types, which definitely makes it hard to choose where is the most opportune place to be on. If there is a platform that does it better, I bet people will start to notice.
Yea ... I suspect it's a protocol problem more than any one platform, because there's just too much flexibility in the protocol and so any inter-platform transfer is necessarily noisy. Multiplied by the number of platforms, and you get quite a bit of noise.
To your point though, a new platform that kinda does it all on its own could likely take off quite well and then set a new de facto standard around how to do things. Bonfire seemed to be that, and may still be. AFAIU, they're trying to solve performance issues right now before properly opening up.
Could be, but I kind of feel like the protocol might be close enough and that it just needs the right implementation. I think Kbin almost had it, but just needed more refinement.
I'm definitely excited for bonfire though, seem like it's got tons of potential!