The error there is that it assumes Democrats are entitled to Leftist votes, despite not representing Leftists in any conceivable manner. It's why we see Muslim-Americans flocking to Jill Stein, for the majority of Muslim-Americans genocide against Palestinians is a hard no entirely.

[–] Tudsamfa@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Nothing I said implies Democrats are entitled to any votes, just basic statements about options and their outcomes.

Because of the terrible voting system, all those voting for Jill Stein will not affect the outcome. Voting 3rd party is barely better than not voting at all. If they would have otherwise preferred the Democrats, this helps Trump.

I also don't think voting 3rd party will make Democrats adopt more leftist policies, as that risks losing centrist voters and their big business sponsors they rely on.

It's a shame, but the best vote is one for Harris. Even when it comes to the Palestinian Genocide. If you want more 3rd party options, try to win a local election first and build momentum from there, don't start with nothing 6 months before and try to win the federal election from there.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Nothing I said implies Democrats are entitled to any votes, just basic statements about options and their outcomes.

So then you don't have any problems with Leftists voting for Claudia De La Crúz, rather than the Dems.

Because of the terrible voting system, all those voting for Jill Stein will not affect the outcome. Voting 3rd party is barely better than not voting at all. If they would have otherwise preferred the Democrats, this helps Trump.

So you do believe the Dems are entitled to Leftist votes for being ever-so-slightly less far-right. Leftists hate the dems and the reps, but now you are saying they help Trump by voting for their interests.

I also don't think voting 3rd party will make Democrats adopt more leftist policies, as that risks losing centrist voters and their big business sponsors they rely on.

If the Dems lose votes to Leftists, and they wish to regain those votes, they have to move leftward. They won't ever be Socialist, correct, but they move to where they lose votes.

It's a shame, but the best vote is one for Harris. Even when it comes to the Palestinian Genocide. If you want more 3rd party options, try to win a local election first and build momentum from there, don't start with nothing 6 months before and try to win the federal election from there.

No, voting for genocide is not the best for Palestinian Genocide, unless you support the Genocide.

Additionally, the idea that a third party can simply "work their way up" from local elections is absurd. That's not how the electoral system is oriented in America, any third party that poses a genuine threat to the system would be fiercely combatted by both parties, like how both Republicans and Democrats are collaborating to kick PSL off the ballot in Georgia.

The only path forward is Revolution.

[–] Tudsamfa@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Leftists hate the dems and the reps, but now you are saying they help Trump by voting for their interests.

Correct. You seem to know all about the voting system, I don't need to explain to you why that is.

If the Dems lose votes to Leftists, and they wish to regain those votes, they have to move leftward. They won’t ever be Socialist, correct, but they move to where they lose votes.

They will move in the direction they think they can get more votes. The past has shown that even when they lose, they prefer to move "center" rather than left.

No, voting for genocide is not the best for Palestinian Genocide, unless you support the Genocide.

Please explain how voting for your alternative 3rd party candidate, sitting at 0.3% at the polls if I'm not mistaken, will help.

The part of them fiercely fighting any 3rd party was a good point though. Still, the Momentum isn't there.

Voting 3rd party is not and will not lead to revolution.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Correct. You seem to know all about the voting system, I don't need to explain to you why that is.

You do. You said Dems are not entitled Leftist votes, but then said Leftists are helping Trump by voting for Cruz. By your logic, Libertarians and Non-Voters are also helping Trump. It's nonsense.

They will move in the direction they think they can get more votes. The past has shown that even when they lose, they prefer to move "center" rather than left.

Depends on where they lost their votes from.

Please explain how voting for your alternative 3rd party candidate, sitting at 0.3% at the polls if I'm not mistaken, will help.

Because refusing to support the genocidal system is a good thing. Kamala and Trump are united on Gaza, voting for either will only result in more death and destruction.

Voting 3rd party is not and will not lead to revolution.

Revolution will come regardless. An increase in votes for Socialist candidates shows the public the strength Socialists are building and presents an alternative.

[–] Tudsamfa@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

By your logic, Libertarians and Non-Voters are also helping Trump.

Whomever they think is the bigger evil, they help by not voting for the lesser evil. For why, see my first comment.

Depends on where they lost their votes from.

Disagree.

Kamala and Trump are united on Gaza, voting for either will only result in more death and destruction.

And voting for neither will also result in more death and destruction. You are refusing to explain how your choice would help, and I can make some damning assumptions why.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Whomever they think is the bigger evil, they help by not voting for the lesser evil. For why, see my first comment.

The Democrats and Republicans are both 99% Hitler, ergo voting for either is voting for the greater evil.

Disagree

If the Democrats lose left wing voters by pushing rightward and lose, are they going to go even further right?

And voting for neither will also result in more death and destruction. You are refusing to explain how your choice would help, and I can make some damning assumptions why.

I am not refusing. By rejecting both genocidal parties, and showing support for anti-genocide parties, the Democrats may shift leftward to regain lost votes. Unconditionally supporting the Democrats only furthers their genocidal tendencies.

Additionally, increasing support for Third Parties shows voters an alternative to genocide.

[–] Tudsamfa@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The Democrats and Republicans are both 99% Hitler, ergo voting for either is voting for the greater evil.

If you are a woman, POC or queer, it is usually really easy to choose a lesser evil here (or idk, a neo-nazi, as I framed this as why a non-voter might also help the democrats). Most people can choose a lesser evil, and they help the greater one by not voting/voting 3rd party. If you literally can't see a difference, that's fine, but this is the reason why most people are better of not voting 3rd party right now.

If the Democrats lose left wing voters by pushing rightward and lose, are they going to go even further right?

Yup, they can make that decision. Maybe they think appealing to the block of Republicans is easier, and I wouldn't be surprised if they do considering that's where their money is and how much they need to change to appeal to the left.

(...) may shift leftward to regain lost votes. Unconditionally supporting the Democrats only furthers their genocidal tendencies.

So, you don't know how it would help. Either the Democrats stay in Power and won't change, or the Republicans gain power and nothing will change until 2028 (or later, depending how project 2025 comes along). Hoping that they may change on Palestine is foolish. You are correct about the support, it should never be unconditional.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

If you are a woman, POC or queer, it is usually really easy to choose a lesser evil here (or idk, a neo-nazi, as I framed this as why a non-voter might also help the democrats). Most people can choose a lesser evil, and they help the greater one by not voting/voting 3rd party. If you literally can't see a difference, that's fine, but this is the reason why most people are better of not voting 3rd party right now.

I'm queer, so is my partner. I'm also a Communist. Trump hates me openly, sure, and Kamala does nothing to stop it.

Yup, they can make that decision. Maybe they think appealing to the block of Republicans is easier, and I wouldn't be surprised if they do considering that's where their money is and how much they need to change to appeal to the left.

Then we know American electoralism doesn't matter anyways and we need a revolution.

So, you don't know how it would help. Either the Democrats stay in Power and won't change, or the Republicans gain power and nothing will change until 2028 (or later, depending how project 2025 comes along). Hoping that they may change on Palestine is foolish. You are correct about the support, it should never be unconditional.

I already told you, you're just ignoring it.

Since you said support shouldn't be unconditional, where's your line in the sand? Genocide apparently is fine for you.

[–] Tudsamfa@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

As implied in my first comment, I'm luckily not a US citizen. So asking where my line would be is a bit weird.

But when there is a better option with any chance of winning, they would have my vote. But since the Palestinian Genocide is happening either way I'd vote this election, Dems it is to reduce the suffering inside the USA. Support is, to me, something different, and I don't think I would support the dems right now.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 months ago

As a US citizen, the DNC and GOP ultimately serve the same donors and are aligned.