this post was submitted on 14 Sep 2024
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[–] Euphorazine@lemmy.world 84 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

Alaska, a red state, is reportedly trying to remove their rank choice voting. This isn't a "Dems" problem, it's a two party problem.

https://ballotpedia.org/Alaska_Ballot_Measure_2,_Repeal_Top-Four_Ranked-Choice_Voting_Initiative_(2024)

Even if state and local elections are ranked choice, the presidential election will still be a first past the post election and the electoral college is still designed for a two party system.

[–] GarbageShootAlt2@lemmy.ml 26 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Obviously the Republicans are completely hostile to rcv, but the nominal progressives here aren't hoping the Republicans will implement rcv, they think Dems will. I have someone arguing exactly that to me in another thread because three congresspeople are currently setting a proposal up to be shot down.

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[–] antmzo220@lemmy.ml 10 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

Alaska, a red state, is reportedly trying to remove their rank choice voting. This isn't a "Dems" problem, it's a two party problem.

This is a counter to the Democratic party supporters you see everywhere who always get irrationally upset at third party voters, not about Republicans.

The point is, if the Democratic party never plan to address it, then how will it ever get done through voting Dem? The same goes for all the other issues people claim we should ignore in the name of "vote blue no matter who", including their genocide.

[–] Kalkaline@leminal.space 5 points 2 months ago (2 children)

So don't participate in the system, got it. Just stay home and give up on Democracy.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 2 months ago (6 children)

Do you think voting is the entirety of political expression for the working class?

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[–] antmzo220@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

So just accept your place in a broken system, got it. Just go support more increasingly right wing fascist policies and give up on any hope for Democracy.*

Pure strawman.

Pretty sure voting for a write in candidate/third party is, by definition, participating in the system.

You just accept the system is broken and undemocratic and believe others should accept this as well and give up.

You are more devoted to "order" than to justice; you prefer a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; you constantly say "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; you paternalistically believe you can set the timetable on progress and constantly advise the progressive to to wait for a "more convenient season".

You are the "white moderate" MLK warned of, as is the vast majority of the party, though not for long, as the party increasingly seeks the support of the right to avoid allowing any policy victory for the left.

You are increasingly the Republican party of Cheney, as demonstrated by, not only his support for the party, but by the party and Kamala herself touting the endorsement, rather than ignoring it/distancing themselves.

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[–] lengau@midwest.social 66 points 2 months ago (3 children)

My city had ranked choice voting implemented by Democrats in the 1970s. They elected the first black mayor, who is still one of our most beloved mayors in the city's history, under RCV.

Then Republicans made it illegal at a state level when they had a trifecta. Democrats keep introducing bills at the state level to allow RCV, and Republicans take more and more drastic action against it. So yeah... I want more Democrats in my state government so we can have RCV.

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[–] HubertManne@moist.catsweat.com 62 points 2 months ago (17 children)

Right on. Once the republicans have enough of a majority they will deal with all these voting problems.

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[–] jaggedrobotpubes@lemmy.world 60 points 2 months ago (5 children)

Someone's unwillingness to implement an effective solution doesn't make an ineffective solution the answer.

The way forward on this is hounding them until they implement it, not fighting the math:

https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 12 points 2 months ago (1 children)

If a solution doesn't have a realistic path to implementation, it doesn't matter. The system itself is designed against change, RCV is something neither party actually wants.

Some few Democrats or states are allowed to support it as far as it gives RCV supporters some semblence of power, without actually pressuring the system.

Even if RCV was implemented, and a Third Party candidate won, the 2 establishment parties would work against any radical change.

[–] would_be_appreciated@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It pressures the system in those cities or states, which is actual pressure to the system, just not direct pressure on the federal government. History shows you can mount pressure through local and state changes until it gets overwhelming support on a federal level.

You can make the argument there might be more effective or quicker solutions, but this is unquestionably one path toward it.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 months ago (4 children)

My point is that tiny, inconsequential pressure is allowed so that you think it applies pressure. Whenever it gets close to making a difference, it won't.

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[–] Ragdoll_X@lemmy.world 58 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)
[–] bastion@feddit.nl 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Those three Democrat are focusing on the thing all of the Democrats and Republicans should.

[–] OmnislashIsACloudApp@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

oh yes the standard reply.

Rs actively tearing it down like in Alaska

Ds putting forth a bill to do it but only started by three of them this time around

"both sides are the same!"

yawn

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[–] Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world 26 points 2 months ago (2 children)

The Dems will preserve a political model that's at least malleable. 3rds will need to work together to push ranked choice more and more into voters' field of view.

Republicans will swan-dive into fascism, in which case 3rds (and everyone else) are fucked.

Dems aren't going to help 3rds directly, but any one who wants the possibility of a 3rd party victory later is committing political suicide by failing to vote blue as a means of buying time. Voting 3rd when that 3rd has no potential for victory is self-destructive.

[–] isaaclw@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

Also just following the green party a bit and educating your self about them... you learn that the green party is as focused on selfish personal horse race politics that deals with power plays, as the dem party (though on a smaller scale) instead of actual change.

This political cycle, Green party had a chance to radically push the Dems on palestine, by putting up a candidate that would drop out if Dems changed their position on support for Israel.

Jill Stein rejected it.

Just the fact they rejected it shows to me that they're not serious about actual political change. They just want to be a spoiler. They continue to only run in general elections instead ofnpushing in states.

So I guess i have no home party, but Ill vote for the lesser of two evils still.

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[–] NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (9 children)

The Dems will preserve a political model that’s at least malleable.

Much like during covid when they gave preferential treatment to themselves while simultaneously working to remove the Green party from ballots.

-More to the point your comment runs contrary to reality and the very nature of the joke pointed out in the meme.

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[–] Corvid@lemmy.world 24 points 2 months ago (12 children)
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[–] ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net 23 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago

To the surprise of nobody Republicans also don't support a voting system that would end the Democrat-Republican duopoly.

[–] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 20 points 2 months ago (2 children)

New York City established Ranked Choice voting in 2020 under a Dem Mayor and majority Dem City Council.

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[–] FartsWithAnAccent@fedia.io 10 points 2 months ago

Isn't what they established in Alaska thanks in large part to democrats???

Edit: lol, seeing a lot of downvotes but I'm not seeing anybody refuting it either. Feel free to prove me wrong of course!

[–] tkk13909@sopuli.xyz 8 points 2 months ago (1 children)

There's a "Vote No on Ranked Choice Voting" sign on my way to work.

[–] EmpathicVagrant@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Someone just needs to paint over the word ‘no’

[–] tkk13909@sopuli.xyz 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I'm not sure if it's legal to deface political signs like that.

Edit: it's very much not

https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=29a.84.040

[–] ryannathans@aussie.zone 21 points 2 months ago (7 children)
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[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 months ago

Some will at small, minor levels, but never enough to cause a serious threat. It's like how it's socially permissible and legal to make worker co-operatives and the like, the fact that it's non-threatening to the status quo keeps it a useful carrot that will never arrive at a scale that causes drastic change.

[–] carpelbridgesyndrome@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] lengau@midwest.social 8 points 2 months ago

Gotta give people their Two Minutes Hate or they might remember that voting for Democrats is, for most Americans, the actual least evil option on November 5.

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