Technology

Every single time we infringe on personal freedoms, we need to do this calculation.

What freedom do you have that you think this is infringing on?

Stop Chinese data collection. I think this is just misdirection. You say it's conspiracy, but just like the PATRIOT Act had nothing to do with patriotism or protecting children and the Iraqi war had nothing to do with WMD... the government often misleads or outright lies.

Correct, it had nothing to do with patriotism or protecting children. It had to do with war profiteering. That's the simple answer to basically every question that starts with "why did the American government do..." It made wealthy Americans richer. That's the default US policy

Much of our data is for sale to anyone who wants to buy it. In fact, our law enforcement loves buying data instead of going through the process for a warrant.

There are so many apps out there with less than scrupulous devs who are more than willing to scrape for as much data as possible and sell that off. China can easily acquire massive amounts of data regardless.

Yup, and that's fine in the way that it's fine for us to ship oil, soybeans, and semiconductors to China. As long as America gets the first bite of the pie, what happens after that is mostly fine

Chinese influence on Americans. I think this one makes more sense than the first one. China is able to quietly suppress or encourage certain points of views - subtly pushing the 170 million Americans into directions that are beneficial for China's interests. For example, perhaps media discouraging support for Taiwan.

I think this is ancillary benefit that is mostly being pushed by our military. I know it's the "reason" they're giving but I agree this is not the primary purpose

I believe this because we are a free society.

We are not. By basically every measurable metric of "freedom" the US doesn't even crack the top 10 in the world and on a lot of lists we don't make the top 20. I don't know what Americans think "freedom" means but whenever I hear people talk about it I often wonder if we live in the same country

You are right that we don't always live up to that term, and never really have. But we get a hell of a lot closer than China or Russia. We shouldn't be moving towards them in ideological terms, but away from them.

It's pretty hyperbolic to say that banning the Chinese pipeline of disinformation and spyware makes America ideologically similar to Russia

As for the young people, there are 170 million people on the app and it skews younger. A large portion of these people use Tiktok as their primary social media. A lot of these will be pushed towards anti-establishment and radical ideologies. Tiktok already leans leftist (and not neoliberal left).

That's just conjecture. Do you know how many social media sites we've seen come and go? You assert people will become anti-establishment, I assert they'll just move on to other social media. Both of our assertions are equally valid without evidence

In a general sense I agree, but from a place whos literal interest is to cause chaos, misinformation and deceit at every possible chance...no. we don't need to be nice to them or listen to their demands.

If the choice is between the u.s. government and the Chinese government choosing what's appropriate for me to watch then I'd choose the u.s government as it is still has some democratic levers which the American people can use to stop it from propagandizing too much. There is no such influence they can wield in the Chinese government. I'm not ok with it though and it's more a matter of the lesser of two evils. Ideally there would be no centralized control over these services and the algorithms would be open source and the servers federated, to allow people to transparently evaluate the biases each service has and make their own decision free from the centralizing network effect present in current social media. If I am unable to inspect it then I want the person who is able to do so to have interests that are better aligned with mine, either an elected representative or at least a worker with similar national interests to me.

As for the book question it's not a matter of a single book. Unless they're advocating for atrocities I'm for any creator being allowed on the platform, the problem is how the platform is showing that content, it's a matter of the book store instead of a single book. If the library has a copy of the three body problem, or even Maos little red book alongside a bunch of other books countering it then that's fine. But if there's no library and only one book store in town then the owner of that book store has a lot of political power and should be under a lot of scrutiny. If the owner of that store isn't a part of the community and doesn't have interests that align with it, or even run counter to it, then the people of that community are right to become skeptical and demand a more open system. This is why libraries are so important, they provide an information repository owned by the public instead of private interests.

There are plenty of other platforms where you can express whatever speech you want however you want. These Chinese authors are not prevented from presenting their opinion.

The Chinese government is however prevented from controlling what information gets broadcasts in the US. That's why this ban comes with an "or sell" option. They don't object to the platform, its users, or its content, they object to CCP control over how the platform prioritizes content within the United States. There is no way to protect from political influence of a foreign government while that government has its hands all over the platform without outright policing speech.

This is not new, it's an update to existing restrictions on foreign countries broadcasting to US citizens. Laws of this nature have been on the books for decades, they just haven't applied to the Internet (similar to how common sense utility law has struggled to be applied to the Internet).

I am very much for a ban or sale. I think most people (myself included) are far less objective/are more subject to propaganda than we'd like to believe. The fact that China cares so much about a platform that's losing money speaks volumes. Well, that and this https://networkcontagion.us/wp-content/uploads/A-Tik-Tok-ing-Timebomb_12.21.23.pdf

They've already banned US controlled promotional algorithms within their own country. They know exactly what they're doing and all this "the US government is undermining its citizens choice!" talk is China trying to use western values against the west in a sort of "malicious compliance" only they stand to benefit from.