What matters isn't who came first. What matters is that no one has the right to expel a human from a land they're living in. That is the core of the Israeli Palestinian conflict.

I am pro Palestine, but have no issue with the increase of Jewish migrations in the 19th century. The problem is not Jewish migration. It is the fact that Israel expelled Palestinians from their homes, murdered them, suffocated them, and made their lives miserable.

And this is the same thing that was done to the native people of the modern day Americas.

[–] ParsnipWitch@feddit.de 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

This is an honest question, is Wikipedia just wrong on that? Because there they write that Palestine also expelled all Jews and that they moved to Israel for that reason (because they weren't allowed in Palestine). And also they write that Hamas specifically want all Jews to be gone.

If Wikipedia is wrong, where do you get your information from?

[–] TheSanSabaSongbird@lemdro.id 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Wikipedia is kind of wrong in the sense that there's always been Palestinian Jews.

The issue is that due to Zionism, a ton of European Jews moved into the region starting at the turn of the last century and accelerating following the Holocaust.

Said Jews then set about building a thriving western-style industrialized democracy that was opposed at every turn by an Arab and Islamic population that opposed its very existence on what can only be thought of as religious grounds.

All of which can only be taken as an indication of how deeply corrupting and counter-progressive are virtually all forms of institutionalized organized religion.

Fuck all of them. Organized religion sucks ass and should rightly be seen as a vestige of the past.

[–] cyclohexane@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago

Said Jews then set about building a thriving western-style industrialized democracy that was opposed at every turn by an Arab and Islamic population that opposed its very existence

I am pretty sure that they were concerned about being expelled from their homes and massacred, and not because they hated "thriving industrialized democracy".

[–] ThatFembyWho@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Didn't Arabs and Palestinians just flat out refuse to coexist with a Jewish state from the start? The international community proposed a solution and they refused to accept it.

Certainly if they chose to fight, and lost, then they have to face the consequences which might include losing their land.

That's hardy unprecedented, the very city I live in was largely founded by seizing lands from the British during the American war of independence, because they lost...

I would say while yes it's "wrong" to kick someone off their land, both parties have to at least be reasonable and willing to compromise when you have a complex ethnic and religious issue. Otherwise conflict is inevitable.

None of which is to excuse any war crimes committed by either side. I just think it's more nuanced than "israel bad apartheid state".

[–] cyclohexane@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 year ago

Didn't Arabs and Palestinians just flat out refuse to coexist with a Jewish state from the start?

"coexist with a Jewish state" is a bit of a contradictory statement. Arabs coexisted with Jews fine prior to the Zionist project. A Jewish state is by definition a state exclusive to Jews. That's the opposite of coexistnece by definition, and yes that is exactly why Arabs (Muslims and Christians alike) refused it.

Certainly if they chose to fight,

Resist*. they chose to resist occupation, expulsion from their homes, massacre and genocide.

fight, and lost, then they have to face the consequences which might include losing their land.

Ahh, so if someone fights you for your land, destroys your home and genocides your people, then they've earned it?? Well I should not be surprised that someone who lives in a nation founded on genocide thinks this is okay.

yes it's "wrong" to kick someone off their land, both parties have to at least be reasonable and willing to compromise

"hey man, I know I just took over your home and burned your family alive in front of your eyes. But you gotta be reasonable here and be willing to compromise!"

What more of a compromise do you need beyond coexistence? That's all Palestinians have asked for, and Israel continues to deny them basic rights, no matter how peaceful they are.

And I end with: Israel bad apartheid state. It is truly that simple.