this post was submitted on 27 May 2024
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Kicked macOS to the Curb and Installed Asahi Fedora Gnome (lemmy.ml)
submitted 5 months ago by harsh3466@lemmy.ml to c/linux@lemmy.ml
40 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Most of the switching posts are from frustrated windows users making the jump. I’m already a Linux user on my server (Ubuntu for now, going Debian at some point) and a 2014 iMac for tinkering/testing (KDE Neon), and a couple of raspberry pis (raspberry pi os headless) but our main household computer is an M1 Mac mini that my wife and I both use.

Lately I’ve been super frustrated with macOS.

  • First, macOS just refuses to mount my USB 3 drives. I have a 1T seagate ssd and a 3T WD hdd (both exFat) and it just flat out refuses to see them. The same drives are visible and mount just fine on my server and the KDE iMac. On macOS, they’re invisible. They don’t auto mount, and they don’t show up in disk utility (gui or shell), which is really fucking annoying when I’m trying to move large files between machines
  • I use Cryptomator to encrypt data on macOS, and because of their whole walled garden shtick and how they continue to lock out system extensions, macfuse routinely breaks, rendering it impossible to access my data on macOS. Again, on the KDE iMac, everything just works as it should. On the Mac It’ll throw me the enable the extension warning, so I enable it. Then it tells me I have to re-boot to actually use the extension. I reboot, and it throws the enable extension warning again. Fucking infuriating.

I hadn’t already pulled the trigger on Asahi because my wife uses the m1 more than I do, and I didn’t want to break anything she does. However today was the last straw as a task that should have taken me maybe 15 minutes took two hours of fighting with macOS. After talking with her she gave me the go ahead to install Asahi. It helps that she does most everything in the browser and that the install is a dual boot setup with macOS still available.

I used to love macOS. It felt so intuitive and while it was never flawless, it mostly just got the fuck out of my way so I could do the things I wanted and needed to do. I still love a lot about Apple hardware, but fuck that shit os. I’m happy to be running Linux on all of the computers in the house.

Now I just have to learn the Fedora differences, having used Debian derivatives up until this point.

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[–] TCB13@lemmy.world 15 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

macOS just refuses to mount my USB 3 drives. I have a 1T seagate ssd and a 3T WD hdd (both exFat) and it just flat out refuses to see them.

I have to re-boot to actually use the extension. I reboot, and it throws the enable extension warning again. Fucking infuriating.

However today was the last straw as a task that should have taken me maybe 15 minutes took two hours of fighting with macOS.

I used to love macOS. It felt so intuitive and while it was never flawless, it mostly just got the fuck out of my way so I could do the things I wanted and needed to do

Although I do agree that macOS has seen better days the things you describe look a lot like general hardware failure because macOS still doesn't get in the way, at least not as much as Windows, and gets the job done.

Before you say that it all now runs fine under Linux so no hardware issues, consider that Linux is way more permissive with hardware failure than macOS is, you better have a look at dmesg while connecting / using the drives to see if there's something potentially wrong there. Same goes for a log of the system boot.

Either way I don't feel like Asahi is a viable production thing yet, it's a great effort but USB/Thunderbolt/Displays, Microphone and in some cases speakers are still not supported. I would rather see this gaining support for those before using it.

[–] tsonfeir@lemmy.world 14 points 5 months ago

I’m not going to pressure you to use macOS, because I like Linux… and macOS. But, I think your issues on macOS are things that can be solved.

However, if you’re happy in your new home, just stay. Linux can be very liberating. You can always go back or even dual boot if there’s something you need.

I find being open to multiple operating systems (not windows) makes life easier. Each one has purpose.

[–] FIST_FILLET@lemmy.ml 11 points 5 months ago (1 children)

moving large files

this is not a solution to the issue of mac for no reason not wanting to mount your drive, but are you familiar with SyncThing? i’ve been using it since like 2015 and have never had an issue, it’s super fast and local. requires both devices to be powered while transferring, though

[–] vrighter@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

you mean it doesn't work when the device is turned off? weird! /s

[–] Username@feddit.de 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I mean, other file sync apps upload everything to a third party while you're working with the device.
Then, when you use another device the first one can be turned off.

[–] FIST_FILLET@lemmy.ml 1 points 5 months ago

yep, this is what i meant

[–] lionkoy5555@kbin.social 9 points 5 months ago

I thought asahi is still in alpha so not yet ready for daily use. It should be fine i guess if user is technical enough to deal with issues

[–] Chronographs@lemmy.zip 8 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

You probably have the unit allocation size set too high or low, Mac OS will only mount it if it’s 128k to 1024k.

[–] Llituro@hexbear.net 8 points 5 months ago (1 children)

i've had fedora on a macbook pro somewhat recently, and the weirdest difference was whatever copr is. i think it's some kind of alternate repositories that can have non-free software or something along those lines. fedora seemed decently quick to learn coming from debian though.

[–] MrSoup@lemmy.zip 13 points 5 months ago

Copr is like Ubuntu's ppa

[–] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 8 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Use fuse-t for Apple Silicon cryptomator, as recommended on their mac-specific page https://cryptomator.org/downloads/

The issues you're having are not standard either. Probably best to do a clean install if you're gonna continue using macOS at all.

[–] Eggyhead@kbin.run 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

I enjoy MacOS, but I’ve got an ancient Intel Mac mini with upgraded storage and RAM back at the in-laws that I had been using as a server. Now that I’ve had the pleasure of a steam deck, I’d like to turn it into a dedicated Linux machine whenever I get the chance to grab it. It’s long past its expiration date as a Mac machine.

[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 5 months ago

I’ve got some old machines lying around (Intel mini and Intel air). I tried to go Linux today on the air. Tried Rocky, then Fedora, then Mint Cinnamon, then Mint Xfce. Couldn’t get the trackpad and kbd working. Plugging in external devices worked, but that meant juggling a kbd and mouse with the flash drive installer (only two USB-C). Then I had to juggle them with a USB-C power cable when the battery faded.

I know there are steps to make it all work with Apple’s T2 chip, but it just wasn’t worth it to me. I have two docks that I could use, but they’re driving two displays and a bunch of peripherals on my main machine, a MacBook Pro. I don’t expect I’ll run Linux on a Mac laptop until I retire my M1 air and install Asahi. It was so seamless when I tested it out that the rest just feels like burning valuable time.

I’ll prolly still convert the old mini, since all that noise won’t apply. Just WiFi drivers and such, which is much easier with four usb ports and ethernet.

If I really wanted a dedicated full-time Linux laptop, I’d probably buy a Framework since I find their hardware interesting. But as it stands, this was more of a fun project that turned out not so fun. I’ll stick with R-Pi’s and hypervisor VMs for my Linux needs for anything serious. Just ordered a new NUC today to replace one that was getting long in the tooth.

[–] radix@lemm.ee 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Congrats. May I ask why you choose to go Fedora rather than another Debian derivative?

[–] MrSoup@lemmy.zip 31 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

For M1 Macs the best (if not the only) linux distro is Asahi Linux and their flagship is Fedora Asahi Remix (which is a collaboration between Asahi Linux and the Fedora Project).

Maybe that's why OP chose it.

[–] radix@lemm.ee 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (5 children)

Huh, I thought it was ARM enough to work with existing other distros, but I guess not. I learned something new today, thanks!

[–] d3Xt3r@lemmy.nz 36 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

It's not that simple. The biggest issue is that Apple Silicon uses 16K memory page sizes instead of the 4K pages used by pretty much every other architecture out there. This means you'd need a kernel patched for 16K pages - but that would also cause an issue with drivers and other apps designed with 4K pages in mind. So there's a lot of work done in that area to get both the kernel and apps working. Even then, some apps may never work, and so you'd have to resort to using hacks like microVMs to run a 4K kernel and then run the app on top of it, but that introduces it's own set of issues of course.

Then there's the issue of hardware components - of course Apple hasn't open-sourced any of their firmware/drivers, so most of the Asahi drivers were developed by reverse engineering. The GPU was the biggest piece of work, the reverse engineering done to get it to a workable state by the Asahi team was nothing short of genius. In fact the current state of the OpenGL driver is so good that it's far, far more compliant to the spec compared to macOS itself - macOS only supports OpenGL upto 4.1 and is not certified either (and technically no longer supported by Apple), whereas Asahi supports up till 4.6 - and it's still being improved. See: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/02/asahi-linux-projects-opengl-support-on-apple-silicon-officially-surpasses-apples/

Similarly, a lot of wizardry was done to get the sound going, and not only did they get it going - they even improved the DSP so it sounds even better than macOS! (Scroll down to the speakers section here: https://asahilinux.org/2024/01/fedora-asahi-new/).

But in spite of all that, there's still a lot of work to be done, such as getting Thunderbolt and DisplayPort going, as well as improving compatibility with x86 apps (using krun and FEX) and more GPU improvements etc and support for the M3 and newer chips.. Even then, Asahi is already in a usable daily-driver state for many users, and it's improving at a rapid pace.

So long story short, the Asahi team had to do a ton of work to get it all going on a complex, closed piece of hardware like Apple Silicon - and it's genius levels of work, the level of which I can barely comprehend - and isn't something any random distro can pull off.

[–] radix@lemm.ee 5 points 5 months ago

Wow, that's really impressive! And they're not being paid by Apple either...

[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 5 months ago

The project has a Patreon page. I’d encourage anyone who’s interested to consider supporting their work. I’ve been a subscriber since the Patreon started and I don’t even use Asahi. I installed it once to kick the tires and it was very impressive, but I like the Apple ecosystem. I just also like choice.

[–] MrSoup@lemmy.zip 9 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Apple M1 isn't just a CPU, is a SoC which holds a CPU and a GPU.

[–] radix@lemm.ee 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I thought there would be lots of Linux distros designed for SoCs since they're somewhat common for laptops.

[–] MrSoup@lemmy.zip 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

It's not just about the SoC itself and GPU needs drivers to work.

Edit:
If you would like to know more about adding support for a new SoC on Linux, check out Asahi Linux blog.

[–] gigatexal@mastodon.social 4 points 5 months ago

@radix @MrSoup yeah … Apple didn’t release any specs for their stuff so the @AsahiLinux team had to reverse engineer everything.

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 4 points 5 months ago

This is not really "ARM" but Apple Silicon. All of the low level functions are Apple firmware calls.

[–] aard@kyu.de 3 points 5 months ago

Generally yes, but you still need hardware support (mostly kernel and mesa). They upstream - but generally you currently want packages built from their git for that.

Also the installer is very mac hardware specific.

[–] fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works 4 points 5 months ago

I hope it goes well! I just had to start using a Mac for work and hate it. Just enough things I can do normally just not working. I've been using nix-darwin to help bridge some of the gaps so far but I wish I could try Asahi.

[–] metaStatic@kbin.social 2 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I recently got into the apple ecosystem and am loving it.

I know this is a linux community and apple is literally the devil but I haven't had a bad experience with it yet.

[–] nehal3m@sh.itjust.works 7 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I'm a schizophrenic that switches between Apple and FOSS regularly. It's gotten to the point where I have an iPhone and a 14" M1 Pro MBP, and also a FairPhone and a Thinkpad T480 upgraded to the gills.

Yes, the Apple ecosystem is like a warm blanket. If you use it the way Apple intended it's smooth as butter, a completely seamless experience that generally does what it says on the tin with a great user experience. The screens, speakers, build quality and integrated software experience are the best on the planet if you ask me.

However, you live in Apple's fortress and they can turn that into a prison any time they want. Also if you're not particularly happy with some way MacOS, but especially i(Pad)OS, does a thing, you're either shit out of luck or you have to install a paid app that breaks standard workflow. I guess a good way to put this is that Apple has been making appliances of late, rather than computers. Less so for MacOS which is still pretty open to configuration.

The reason I keep switching to FOSS is idealism; I want my hard- and software to belong to me and only me. That also means I am responsible if things break or they don't work as well as they should. It's up to me to fix or improve. That sometimes annoys the hell out of me at which point I will switch back to Apple until such time I read a post or view a video that rants about proprietary bullshit and how surveillance/late stage/attention capitalism is ruining the world and round and round we go.

For this latest stint I bought the Thinkpad and upgraded the hell out of it (I figure if Linux is going to run well on anything it's a Thinkpad). Hope it sticks this time.

[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I haven't had a bad experience with it yet.

Give it time

[–] oo1@kbin.social 5 points 5 months ago (2 children)

yeah I paid a lot for an apple laptop in 2008. (more than the hardware was worth - but the form factor was good)
It was okay, and osx was ok for most stuff for a few years .

But they cut support for updates well within 10 years and the version I was stuck on eventually just got too far behind on security updates and couldn't even get firefox updates and stuff.
So they forced me back tolinux full time - thankfully dual bootng macos+linux was really easy on the old x86 ones.

It seems you have to keep shipping them big buckets of dollars every 5 years or so - fuck that.
I'd much rather just give the odd bit of pay-what-you-can/ tip jar to a few linux projects than chuck out perfectly good hardware every few years.

[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago

I feel you. I also have noticed that in a lot of small ways, the os keeps getting worse, and rarely better

[–] metaStatic@kbin.social 1 points 5 months ago

I have a few 2015 laptops, the last time the apple logo lights up like it damn well should, (and their operating systems are still getting updates almost a decade later) ipods and an iphone 6 I've fixed, apple TV because it was cheap enough. all told I'm in it for less than the cost of a new macbook and apple hasn't got a cent yet. I have an imac from 2008 I found on the side of the road that actually needs linux but a computer of that vintage in 2008 would be a paperweight at best, the fact it's still useful as a computer at all is astonishing to me.