Technology

Imagine the cost of stations everywhere that would have tanker-trucks deliver fluid that you'd put in cars

Don't worry, the US government will support its automakers by banning the competition.

That is, if they make totally cool and totally legal campaign contributions.

Competing is for the working class, not the 1%.

It's a joke about how apple made their phone even thinner and the battery still isn't removable :P

The company (NIO) owns them and you are leasing the batteries. The car is cheaper this way, as you don’t buy the battery up front, but pay a monthly fee (~200+ in Germany).

You have a fixed number of swaps per month, above that you have to pay extra.

Source: colleague uses a car like this and explained the details.

It's been a while since I've watched it myself, but remember them going into the ownership structure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNZy603as5w

There's basically no way for them to not make it a subscription model.

So I can give an example. Here in Taiwan, Gogoro has put up a lot of battery swap stations for their electric scooters. When you buy the scooter, it comes with removable batteries which you can charge on your own. Or, you can buy a monthly subscription on top of it that gives you access to those battery stations, where you can ride up to one and swap a pair of freshly charged batteries into your scooter. Subscription price is tiered by Ah per month, if you go over the limit you pay extra per Ah.

In this case, yes I think Gogoro is in charge of maintaining/replacing old batteries. Subscription is separate from the scooter cost, so buying used should not affect your ability to subscribe to the plan.

I guess it would either work like a subscription fee or a one time fee per swap

That's like asking who owns a propane tanks for your grill. You own it while you have it.

When you get a new batter, you own the new one, and relinquish ownership of the previous one, paying for the electricity that's on the new battery. AS LONG AS the battery that you're relinquishing is substantially identical to the new battery.

In my head the batteries would work somewhat like the electric scooters you can rent around big cities. There would be battery companies that pay stations to stock their batteries. Then EV owners pay for the juice they used, plus a little extra for the wear, plus a little extra to make it worth it for the battery companies when they swap to a new battery. So you're essentially renting the batteries.

I would guess a swappable battery would be separated from the vehicle, similar to a gas bottle for a grill.

The battery would be rented for a small deposit and on swapping you only pay the energy + service fee.

I guess you could also buy one to own, but then could not swap that.

That's how it would make sense, at least.

Renault tried leasing the batteries in EV in an effort to lower the initial cost of the car while increasing their tail for future owners. They abandoned it only a few years in as it was a disaster for their used market that got worse the older the car got as nobody wanted the ongoing cost. Only the initial owner saved money, and only if they managed to use PCP finance with a balloon set before Renault realised that the battery leased cars would be worth significantly less.

Renault also did not like that with older cars they would be liable for the battery replacement far sooner than they planned as they (initially) had a higher percentage unusable before they had to do a free replacement vs. a normal battery warranty, made worse as a leased battery has a warranty as long as you are paying the lease.

Renault could repossess the car if you stopped paying the battery lease and refused to buy it out. Its like any car finance that puts a lien or similar on the car, you do not own it till its gone.

It's not just that, its what happens if you get a battery from a guy named roger who said he knows what he's doing and fucked with it?

Battery swapping sounds great, until you put it into a real world scenario.

The whole "but what about the one journey a year you make that's outside the normal battery range?" is such an obvious fossil fuel industry boondoggle. It's up there with "but what about that one time you had to move a fridge?" when convincing people that a Ford F150 is a normal sized family car.

hear hear for small cars

PS: and walkable/cyclable cities

52% of all trips made are less than 3 miles and less than 2% are over fifty miles

I got a Chevy Volt based on this premise, and it's true! I barely touched my car's ICE until I moved further out into the sticks (running away from rising rents) and even way out here most of my trips are to the grocery store or post office and don't need it.

There’s a company doing this already. Giant battery sits behind the cab. They drive up, unplug it like a LEGO with a huge robot arm, plunk in a new one and good to go.

I think an automated battery swap system would work best for OTR trucking.

Yes, that and other commercial vehicles that put on a lot of miles in a day, every day.

I stopped reading the article there.

Either the author is voluntarily misleading or he has no idea of what he is talking about.

Here is the map all the fast charging stations (>100kW) along the way between Paris and the Mont St Michel.

The Tesla model 3 in Europe uses the standard combo CCS plug so it can use all of these stations.

I did not count them but at a first glance the number of charger is higher than "none"

Edit: OK I read the article after all but I really don't see what problem battery swapping would solve.

I could see a use case for public transport that has to go a specific road and need to run non stop every days but even then I suspect that having overhead cable on a short section to charge the battery while running would be more appropriate than battery swapping.

The article is talking about the lack of charging station but battery swapping just make the problem way way worse. A battery charger is just a parking spot and a high voltage AC - DC transformer connected to the grid. It's relatively cheap and easy to install, does not take much space and work for all electric cars compared to a battery swapping station that can only work for one specific brand (specific model too ?) need robotics and plenty of storage. Its much harder and expensive to install and you need one charging station per brand. This means less stations overall.

Finally there is the speed of charging, this is true that battery swapping is probably faster than fast charging but honestly I don't find charging an electric car that inconvenient.

On long highway trips I need to stop around 20 minutes every 2 hours, a 20 minutes break every 2 hours is not that bad, just enough time for a toilet break, a quick coffee before going back on the road.

I want to see someone try.

Not because it's practical, or because it makes sense. But because it sounds like it makes sense but I'm practice would be so impractical and hard that the solution would be absolutely hilarious.

You're driving along the freeway at 70 miles an hour, and a jet powered super drone rockets along side the car carrying a 2000 pound brick of lithium and drops it on top of you like a fucking dump truck. The shock crushes the cheap Chinese car like a can of soda and the sudden change in weight sends the drone careening off in to the air at a reasonable percentage of mach 1. The last thing you see on this earth as your brain matter is squeezed out of your eye sockets like toothpaste is a wide eyed driver in the car next to you.

The resulting pile up kills 4 people immediately, and several more later as they get caught in an expanding wave of lithium battery fires that either burn them to death or suck all of the oxygen out of the air.

I can see so many issues with what you're proposing, but hey auto grenade dropping drones have great military application

Why wouldn't you compare like situations? It appears you chose a rather well set-up charging station vs. a poorly setup swapping station.

I didn't picture an oil change when I imagined a battery swap station, I am not sure that should be the default or starting point.