this post was submitted on 20 Oct 2025
96 points (87.5% liked)

Memes

52887 readers
885 users here now

Rules:

  1. Be civil and nice.
  2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.

founded 6 years ago
MODERATORS
gary_host_laptop@lemmy.ml
sexy_peach@feddit.de
cyclohexane@lemmy.ml
cypherpunks@lemmy.ml
96
Vote! (lemmy.ml)
submitted 1 day ago by yogthos@lemmy.ml to c/memes@lemmy.ml
30 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 
top 30 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 37 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Political philosophers in the year 300 BC:

"Hey, so electoralism is a rigged game, because only wealthy and prestigious families have enough money to finance the popularity contest to get themselves or their puppet candidates elected."

Marxists in the 1800s, with the rise of representative governments:

"Hey, this system is proving to be the safest shell for capitalist rule, because wealthy capitalists are able to stack every election to get their puppets elected, and people have the illusion that they live in democracies"

Goldfish-brained liberals in the 2020s:

"Electoralism is gonna work this time, we just didn't vote hard enough before!"

[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 19 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

You should've seen the hoods the other guy would have made us wear. Enabling a genocide of our colonial subjects is a small price to pay to maintain 5% of our dignity. I'm on the left btw

[–] Carrot@lemmy.today 7 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I'd love to have a discussion about this. I am a socialist through and through. I believe that the system needs to be dismantled to achieve any meaningful change, and that no progress can realistically be made within the system.

I'd argue that there are 4 actions within the system. Vote red, vote blue, vote third party, and don't vote. I'd argue that all 4 options will never lead to meaningful change. However, given this, every American who is eligible to vote is forced into playing the game, there is no way to abstain. Even not voting leads to a meaningful outcome within the system, and thus is still playing the game.

If no actions within the system can change things, I pose that the only way to disrupt this system is by dismantling it from the outside via revolution.

This however, cannot be done overnight, even if you are consistently acting on it. These types of things take a general sense of civil unrest to get kicked off. I believe that under capitalism, this unrest is inevitable, and once it hits a tipping point, the revolution will start. In the meantime, I feel we have two actions we can take.

First, we should be ushering in the revolution. Organize, make people aware of the alternative, disrupt the system in any means you reasonably can, try to get people to be sympathetic to the cause, etc. Don't slack on your responsibility to prepare and eventually initiate the revolution.

Second, since we have no choice but to play the game we've been dropped in to, you should vote for short term damage mitigation. If you are forced to take an action within the system, I feel people have a moral obligation to try to reduce the harm to others as much as possible. This involves making a vote, since not voting results in almost the same outcome as a vote for the candidate furthest away from the one you considered least harmful.

I have yet to see an argument that shows how not voting is going against or dismantling the system. However, considering so many people believe that not voting is the right choice, I'm really interested in hearing someone explain it to me, as there must be some reasoning behind it that I'm not seeing.

[–] dessalines@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 day ago (1 children)

how not voting is going against or dismantling the system.

Its refusing to play their rigged game, and spending your energies elsewhere.

Every single positive change from the US came not through voting or participation in the electoral process, but from force or the threat of force from below, usually in the form of mass protests, or enemies of the US empire defeating them militarily.

[–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 12 points 1 day ago

emphasis on spending your energy elsewhere. like actually go do stuff, and i don't mean the no kings parades.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The simple argument is that electoralism cannot work. Therefore, workers should front and vote for our own parties, to measure strength and prove the inability to gain change via electoralism.

[–] Carrot@lemmy.today 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I don't know if I understand what you are suggesting. Are you saying the working class should vote third party, or each person should vote for themself? Or when you say vote for our own parties do you mean not vote at all?

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

The working class should vote for socialist parties like PSL, participate in them, and organize with them. That's about the best we can do within the bounds of electoralism, but we should use that to organize for dual power and revolution.

[–] Carrot@lemmy.today 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Oh, then I think we agree with each other. I'm specifically wondering why someone would abstain from voting

[–] 3yiyo3@lemmy.ml 4 points 17 hours ago

I agree with both of you that we need to vote for socialist parties and organize with them. But that doesnt mean to support the lesser evil argument. Lesser evil argument will be that we need to vote for Hillary in order to avoid Trump for example, that is absurd and is the reason we cannot support this lesser evil stupidity. I hope Carrot is not defending this lesser evil position.