this post was submitted on 05 Dec 2025
778 points (98.7% liked)

Technology

77571 readers
5727 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related news or articles.
  3. Be excellent to each other!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, this includes using AI responses and summaries. To ask if your bot can be added please contact a mod.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
  10. Accounts 7 days and younger will have their posts automatically removed.

Approved Bots


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

An engineer got curious about how his iLife A11 smart vacuum worked and monitored the network traffic coming from the device. That’s when he noticed it was constantly sending logs and telemetry data to the manufacturer — something he hadn't consented to. The user, Harishankar, decided to block the telemetry servers' IP addresses on his network, while keeping the firmware and OTA servers open. While his smart gadget worked for a while, it just refused to turn on soon after. After a lengthy investigation, he discovered that a remote kill command had been issued to his device.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Microtonal_Banana@lemmy.zip 29 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Louis Rossman should do a segment on them.

[–] Tenderizer@aussie.zone 5 points 4 days ago

He did. Where he said the article looked AI generated and so he wasn't going to waste any time with it.

[–] YgestWefsid@lemmy.today 19 points 5 days ago (2 children)

I am planning to make a list of devices I really do NOT want near me. Starting with this one.

Gonna be a long list....

Time to run off into the forest I suppose

[–] Petter1@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 4 days ago

Network segmentation.

But yea, you don’t want a moving cam/mic device reporting home…

[–] Goldholz@lemmy.blahaj.zone 35 points 6 days ago (3 children)

Say it with me. If buying doesnt mean 100% ownership...

[–] scala@lemmy.ml 4 points 5 days ago

Then pirating isn't stealing.

[–] jjlinux@lemmy.zip 3 points 5 days ago

... FUCK THE DMCA!

What did I win?

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world 28 points 6 days ago (1 children)

If I don't own it 100% then reimburse me if you disable it.

[–] mal3oon@lemmy.world 17 points 6 days ago

For me the worst part is that someone developed the functionality to monitor and track, until the signal is lost, and if so, kill. It's really crazy how daring this is.

[–] CptOblivius@lemmy.world 15 points 6 days ago (1 children)
[–] Landless2029@lemmy.world 3 points 5 days ago

Shitty terms of service.

[–] Hadriscus@jlai.lu 9 points 6 days ago

Same story with this guy (in french)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGMRUiBOFj0

Highly recommend watching his stuff, might be very technical but also super methodical

[–] percent@infosec.pub 9 points 6 days ago (3 children)

I wish companies would at least offer a "no data collecting/selling" price option. Like, how much would they make from selling my data? Just give me the option to pay that extra amount so I can buy a vacuum without thinking about how it's spying on me.

[–] deathbird@mander.xyz 12 points 5 days ago (1 children)

My concern is that they'll include the equipment for spying on you, and just enable it later.

I bought a Hue because it said "no online account required!" Later they changed their mind.

I want the promise plus open standards and a base of libre software. I want them to tie themselves to the mast.

[–] percent@infosec.pub 4 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Yeah, good point. Owners of Samsung "smart" refrigerators started seeing ads on them recently.

I'm sure there was some sort of legal terms that users had to agree to to enable that, but it still feels like a scam. Some amount of those fridge owners would not have bought the fridge if they knew there would be ads on it at any point in time.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] jjlinux@lemmy.zip 6 points 5 days ago (1 children)

This is every single 'smart device' out there. The way I was able to block everything in 2 Roborocks at home was by setting them up in Home Assistant over Matter, blocking everything and using it from HA only (us the schedules, those remain in the robots). It's less than convenient allowing it access to the update servers once per month to see if there's any and then blocking it again, but it's something.

We're preparing our 'smart home' for our new house that's not finished yet by choosing only devices that are matter over wifi (not thread) so that I can set it all up to work locally ove Home Assistant. That, in my opinion, is the best way to keep some convenience while shutting those assholes out.

[–] flying_sheep@lemmy.ml 4 points 5 days ago

Most of them, sure. Every single one until proven otherwise, yes. Every single one, no qualifiers? No.

Brands like Shelly allow you to completely disable the cloud, which AFAIK makes them stop phoning home completely except for update checks.

I think a lot of “Home Assistant certified” brands are good privacy-wise, as that means that they don't care about pushing you onto their proprietary cloud.

[–] elvith@feddit.org 14 points 6 days ago (3 children)

Having not read the article: “Let’s apply Hanlon’s Razor: Oh, probably it just collects the data locally and caches it until the vendor’s servers are reachable. After a while the data partition was full and it stopped working as this case was never deemed possible when this was developed.”

Having read that the kill command was logged and he found it in the logs: “ok, there are no technical details, so there might still be a misunderstanding, but that’s not what I expected!”

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] SpiceDealer@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Reject bottom feeder, Embrace Rigid vacuum.

[–] LuigiMaoFrance@lemmy.ml 5 points 5 days ago

broom chads stay winning

[–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 6 points 6 days ago (3 children)

Yeah, mine has it. I have to go into the app once a week and manually delete it.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] aceshigh@lemmy.world 5 points 6 days ago (7 children)

As a layman, can someone explain what the ramifications of smart devices sharing your data is. I know it’s bad, but I don’t understand why it’s bad and how it’s used against you.

[–] badgermurphy@lemmy.world 16 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

The problem that is created by a person's private data being collected against their will is primarily a philosophical one similar to the "principle of least privilege", which you may be familiar with. The idea is that those collecting the data have no reasonable need for access to it in order to provide the services they're providing, so their collection of that information can only be for something other than the user's benefit, but the user gets nothing in exchange for it. The user is paying for the product/service they get, so the personal data is just a bonus freebie that the vendor is making off with. If the personal data is worthless, then there is no need to collect it, and if it does have worth, they are taking something of value without paying for it, which one might call stealing, or at least piracy. To many, this is already enough to cry foul, but we haven't even gotten into the content and use of the collected data yet.

There is a vibrant marketplace among those in the advertising business for this personal data. There are brokers and aggregators of this data with the goal of correlating every data point they have gotten from every device and app they can find with a specific person. Even if no one individual detail or set of details presents a risk or identifies who the specific person is, they use computer algorithms to analyze all the data, narrowing it down to exactly one individual, similar to the way the game "20 questions" works to guess what object the player is thinking of--they can pick literally any object or concept in the whole world, and in 20 questions or less, the other player can often guess it. If you imagine the advertisers doing this, imagine how successful they would be at guessing who a person is if they can ask unlimited questions forever until there can be no doubt; that is exactly what the algorithm reading the collected data can do.

There was an infamous example of Target (the retailer) determining a young girl was pregnant before she told anyone or even knew herself, and created a disastrous home situation for her by sending her targeted maternity marketing materials to her house, which was seen by her abusive family.

These companies build what many find to be disturbingly invasive dossiers on individuals, including their private health information, intimacy preferences, and private personal habits, among other things. The EFF did a write-up many years ago with creepy examples of basic metadata collection that I found helpful to my understanding of the problem here:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/06/why-metadata-matters?rss=1

Companies have little to no obligation to treat you fairly or even do business with, allowing them to potentially create a downright exile situation for you if they have decided you belong on some "naughty list" because of an indicator given to them by an algorithm that analyzed your info. They can also take advantage of widely known weaknesses in human psychology to influence you in ways that you don't even realize, but are undeniably unethical and coercive. Also, it creates loopholes for bad actors in government to exploit. For example, in my country (USA), the police are forbidden from investigating me if I am not suspected of a crime, but they can pay a data broker $30 for a breakdown of everything I like, everything I do, and everywhere I've been. If it was sound government policy to allow arbitrary investigation of anyone regardless of suspicion, then ask yourself why every non-authoritarian government forbids it.

I know that's a lot; it is a complicated topic that is hard to understand the implications of. Unfortunately, everyone that could most effectively work to educate everyone on those risks is instead exploiting their ignorance for a wide variety of purposes. Some of those purposes are innocuous, but others are ethically dubious, and many more are just objectively nefarious. To be clear, the reason for the laws against blanket investigations was to prevent the dubious and nefarious uses, because once that data is collected, it isn't feasible to ensure it will stay in the right hands. The determination was that potential net good of this kind of data collection is far outweighed by the potential net negatives.

I hope that helps!

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Sir_Premiumhengst@lemmy.world 15 points 6 days ago (7 children)

A detailed room-mapping scan is basically a wealth report disguised as vacuum telemetry: square footage, room count, layout complexity, “bonus” spaces like offices or nurserie; all of it feeds straight into socioeconomic profiling. And once companies have that floor plan, they’re not just storing it; they’re monetizing it, feeding it into ad networks, data brokers, and pricing algorithms that adjust what you see (=and what you pay) based on the shape of your living space.

And a mapped floor plan also quietly exposes who lives in the home, how they move, and what can be inferred from that.

load more comments (7 replies)
[–] underisk@lemmy.ml 11 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Email me the blueprints to your house, your address, name, and your favorite hobbies and I will tell you the answer.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] JustinTheGM@ttrpg.network 6 points 6 days ago (1 children)

One aspect to consider is exactly what data these devices are exfiltrating from your network. You usually can't see the contents of the telemetry sent, but given that a LOT of smart devices have cameras and/or microphones, do you really trust that your IoT devices are not sending back audio and or video recordings of the inside of your house?

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›