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[Update: I went with CachyOS instead, it looks like a great option for gaming with general usage and has a really good wiki]

A coworker of mine asked me to help him install Linux, he hasn't tried Linux before but he's sick of Windows.

He is very much into gaming, so gaming support is the first priority. He is also a developer/tester so I suppose that he will also want to have access to dev tools, languages, and other packages like that for personal projects.

My first go-to when recommending to newbies is Mint because it's simple, tried and tested, but I have been hearing a lot about Bazzite lately and see that it offers a very nice gaming experience. However it scares me that there's no typical package management like apt or pacman as I browse their docs, instead it relies heavily on Flatpaks and brew, or even podman images. Will this be a problem as he uses the OS for general usage besides gaming in the long term, would it be better to just go with Mint and set that up for gaming instead?

Feel free to also recommend other distros, but keep in mind that while he is technical, he is still completely new to this so I want things to work out perfectly for his first experience.

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[–] Tywele@piefed.social 32 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Recommend the one you use yourself so you are able to help them in the best way possible.

[–] iByteABit@lemmy.ml 16 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

This is usually a good idea, but I think Arch would be a bit too much for him

Still, any Debian derivative would be just as easy for me to help and also for him to find help online, so that's the main reason I'd choose Mint over Bazzite

[–] lost_faith@lemmy.ca 9 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

I moved my gf to Kubuntu, all she knows is double click starts her games, open konsole - press up arrow - hit enter to start the G13 kb and every so often click that round icon with the blue dot for updates whenever she feels like it (or something stops working). Oh yeah, kernel level anti-cheat is a dead stop under linux, if he plays any of them, he needs windows so far as I know.

I put flatpak as the default instead of snap (10 seconds), she is now as comfortable as she was under windows, I have also not needed to support her much (except for the stuff I forgot to setup). and for the love of god make sure you show your friend "TimeShift" can't say enough how great that app is, you can ~~break almost anything~~ tinker to your hearts content and recover in minutes

[–] Attacker94@lemmy.world 5 points 3 weeks ago

You could put him on to cachy os, iirc it has graphical package management and is built on arch.

[–] IratePirate@feddit.org 4 points 3 weeks ago

This is the correct approach, OP. Bazzite is good, but its immutability is an aspect one needs to get used to and learn to work with. Since you're not (and I'm not saying I am ;), rather stick to something you feel comfortable supporting, because you'll be the one they'll come running to if they have a problem.

[–] jcarax@beehaw.org 3 points 3 weeks ago

Yes, but CachyOS might not be, and while it does a bit to make things substantially easier for your friend, you'll have a lot of familiarity with it as an Arch user.

Source: An Arch user for 15 years who just installed CachyOS when I wanted to switch from Cosmic to KDE.

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[–] Lawnman23@lemmy.world 17 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (7 children)

Fedora KDE.

Steam and Heroic work fantastic on it.

Has its own App Store for searching for stuff.

Looks similar-esque to Windows so getting around is less painful.

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[–] orenj@lemmy.sdf.org 16 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

I'd actually recommend whatever it is that you use, OP. Having a friend who is intimately familiar with your distro is way more helpful than one that's theoretically even better but you have limited support for. If they want to make the jump later, they can always do what I did and somehow accidentally become an arch (btw) linux guy after a year in the ecosystem (goddamnit how did this happen, i just wanted to keep using my old craptop, not become a thigh high socks guy).

edit: I'm reading that you're also an archfreak, so I'd suggest Manjaro instead. It's got an easier learning curve and guis, but is arch-based.

[–] Kirk@startrek.website 16 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

Bazzite 100%. It's the best out of the box gaming distro, and bonus points for immutability (not that your friend needs to know what that is).

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[–] Igilq@szmer.info 15 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Definitely not bazzaite, it has lots of unremovable bloatware and since it doesn't have native package manager it will be a problem. For gaming i propose cachyos, it focuses a lot on performance in games. They have their own proton, kernel and they even had their own browser

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

has lots of unremovable bloatware

Such as?

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[–] turboSnail@piefed.europe.pub 2 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

No native package manager? How does Bazzite manage packages then?

[–] eodur@piefed.social 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

rpm-ostree, brew, and dev containers. I haven't felt the lack, but it is likely not for everyone.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 3 weeks ago

Also distrobox

[–] Igilq@szmer.info 4 points 3 weeks ago

Using something called rpm-ostree. rpm-ostree is a hybrid image/package system. It combines libostree and libdnf to provide atomic and safe upgrades with local RPM package layering. Still that isnt real package manager since you cannot remove or install anything from fedora repo, it is only used for updates and thats all

[–] Telorand@reddthat.com 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Ideally, you don't. You can layer packages with rpm-ostree, but that's typically something you want to do very intentionally and sparingly, not as a first resort for installing packages.

Instead, everything is typically installed in userspace via Flatpak/AppImage or using the distrobox command to create podman containers (where you can install software using its package manager, depending on what base distro you chose for it).

When you update, you are replacing the current system image with a new one, so if there's a problem with the new system, you can just rpm-ostree rollback to the previous one.

Let me know if you have other questions. I run Bazzite on a laptop daily.

[–] turboSnail@piefed.europe.pub 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Thanks for the explanation.
I'm only vaguely aware of the concept of an atomic distribution, so there's a lot to learn. I guess it's about time I sacrificed my spare laptop to silverblue.

When it comes to recommending a distribution to a newbie, I have mixed feelings about atomic distributions. If the newbie in question just wants to leave the OS alone and focus on gaming, Bazzite sounds like the best option.

On the other hand, if the newbie wants figure out how things work, starting with an atomic distribution doesn't really sound like the easiest starting point. Is it though? Could be mistaken.

I think it's pretty simple to understand if the system just pulls packages from the repos and downloads what needs to be updated. If you add flatpaks and appimages to the mix, it just adds another layer of confusion. Totally fine for your second distro though. After all, getting to experience new and interesting ways to do things is the joy of distrohopping.

And then there's rpm-ostree thing. I really need to read more about that, but that sounds like yet another layer in an already very tall cake. Those newbies who want to know how these things work may find an atomic distro a bit overwhelming.

But do you really need to understand any of that to get started? Do you think it's enough for most newbies to just install a few flatpaks to get the apps you need? Do you think they would need to involve rpm-ostree within the first year?

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[–] rozodru@piefed.social 14 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

I'd say Bazzite but I would warn him (and since he's a developer already it might not be a big deal) if he's looking to do any sort of dev work or whatever with Bazzite then prepare to utilize stuff like distrobox, flatpaks, etc to accomplish stuff like that.

That being said as a dev and gamer myself if my first linux experience was Bazzite I might get annoyed. Mint is a great first experience. when I originally tried it well over a year ago though I did have issues with my Nvidia GPU on it and gaming wasn't super great BUT it's been awhile since I've used mint so that may have changed.

Honestly I would suggest start with Mint and just drive it for a couple weeks. If he likes it but feel it's limited for some things then that's when he can expand out to different distros. And like I said maybe gaming on Mint has improved since I last used it. But if he's comfortable with running distrobox and containers then Bazzite is fine.

[–] iByteABit@lemmy.ml 5 points 3 weeks ago (8 children)

I’d say Bazzite but I would warn him (and since he’s a developer already it might not be a big deal) if he’s looking to do any sort of dev work or whatever with Bazzite then prepare to utilize stuff like distrobox, flatpaks, etc to accomplish stuff like that

That's what I figured, I would be very annoyed to have to use images for software I would simply do an apt install for in other distros, so I'll leave out Bazzite from my options definitely

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[–] deczzz@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

In order of ease of use; Nobara (Fedora based), popOS (Mint/Ubuntu based), cachyOS (Arch based, easy enough to use but might be overwhelming because of the amount of linux jargon going on) over bazzite, depending on your friend ability and wish to tinker around with his OS.

I have had problems even dragging dropping files across apps in bazzite and other immutable distros like bluefin. If your friend is interested in tinkering just a little bit then he will be be banging his head across a wall with bazzite. The community support for these relatively new immutable distros is also quite bad when it comes to edge cases.

[–] tyrant@lemmy.world 10 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

I strongly disagree with the order. To me, nobara has broken more than any of these (quite frequently actually), pop os is clunky and not intuitive, cachy is surprisingly the most stable for me and easiest despite it being arch based. Bazzite I use on my home living room computer and it's been pretty solid. I'm a little concerned with it though because I believe they are having some maintainer issues that might impact future releases.

[–] HumbleExaggeration@feddit.org 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I switched from win11 to nobara about 2 months ago and so far am really happy with it. Anything i should look out for that could avoid 'breaking' it?

[–] tyrant@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

Once I tried to install a different desktop environment and that didn't go well. Another time it just... Stopped working? I hadn't changed anything. It seemed like a Nvidia thing but I never did recover it. Ended up doing a fresh install. If you're 2 months in you've done better than I did! It might just not like my machine

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[–] DFX4509B@lemmy.wtf 10 points 3 weeks ago

Bazzite has newer drivers, ditto for CachyOS Handheld Edition for another SteamOS clone.

[–] LordFireCrotch@lemmy.today 10 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Mint for the community support. He'll have tons of resources if he runs into anything and you're not available. As a dev he should be resourceful in that regard.

But definitely check the kinds of games he's playing. Modern multiplayer games will be a big hurdle if they're not steam verified.

[–] Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 8 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

People who want to play games with kernel level anti-cheat won't be happy with Linux. If that's a must, they'd need to look for other solutions. For all others, Mint is great to get started. Most people just want their computer to work with minimal hassle. That's what Mint excels at.

[–] karashta@piefed.social 3 points 3 weeks ago

I agree with this. I even went with LMDE instead of the main Mint and there have only been a few small things I had to really fiddle with to get working how I wanted.

Having so much documentation that is actually correct and useful is a godsend to a noob like me.

[–] ranslite@pie.dasneuland.de 8 points 3 weeks ago

I use CachyOS for over a year. Mainly for playing.

[–] SrMono@feddit.org 7 points 3 weeks ago
[–] Tetsuo@jlai.lu 7 points 3 weeks ago

I think Bazzite is the "easiest". But I think it would be very difficult to tinker for someone not used to Linux. It's the plug and play option. For me the fact that bazzite tries to be immutable is a very good plus for stability on the long run. And somehow fits well for gaming on Linux. The drawback is that these immutable distro are hard to tinker with if you dont have experience with immutable package managers and so on.

CachyOS has maybe a more traditional structure but should offer good performance too.

There is also Nobara and Pop OS.

I'm on PoPOS but it's too recent for me to give feedback for gaming. But it should work well too.

[–] eugenia@lemmy.ml 7 points 3 weeks ago

He should start with Mint, learn the system in general, and then move to Bazzite, CachyOS, Pika or Nobara, which are more game centric.

[–] a_fancy_kiwi@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago

he is still completely new to this so I want things to work out perfectly for his first experience.

Of the two options you gave, I’d go with Mint. If your friend runs into a problem, it would probably be easier to diagnose the issue since it’s just Ubuntu/Debian under the hood.

Once they get used to it, they can try other gaming specific distros if they want to try to get a little more performance.

[–] accideath@feddit.org 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Can recommend nobara. Has all the game focused stuff bazzite has but it’s just regular old fedora with the dnf package manager underneath.

[–] iByteABit@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 weeks ago

Nobara does seem pretty cool

[–] root@aussie.zone 5 points 3 weeks ago

I do not have first hand experience, but have been told that while Bazzite is excellent for gaming, the immutable nature of complicates matters when it comes to software development, dev tools and stuff of that nature.

[–] Mangoholic@lemmy.ml 3 points 3 weeks ago

I went with mint, had mininal troubles getting gaming setup and still a good none gaming experience. Show him how to customize his desktop a bit i really enjoyed trying cool themes to fit the gaming vibe.

I haven't had too much issues with Bazzite for general use. I still use windows for work, so there's some things I haven't tried setting up and have no clue how different they'd be on an immutable vs a mutable OS.

I've used Mint before (like 10 years ago) and somehow it kept breaking (I'm sure I somehow caused it, but I only knew enough to break things and not enough to understand how I was breaking them). 🤷‍♀️ For most people, I'd think how Bazzite works would be acceptable. For some power users, the immutable OS aspect might be annoying, but I think that's mostly an issue for people who are coming from a different Linux distro (it did bother me at first and I did consider switching to something like PopOS) or people who want to run fairly dated or obscure software (granted, VMs are sometimes already necessary for that - at a previous job, we had to use windows 95 VMs to run a specific version of software).

[–] TheModerateTankie@hexbear.net 3 points 3 weeks ago

I really like Bazzite and the universal blue project (Bluefin and Aurora) in general. It is the fastest way to get a stable, usable linux installation with a bunch of QoL tweaks without having to follow a "here's top 10 things to do" guide after install. Starting from a stable install is the best way to get used to linux, imo. If you are coming from windows or a mac and the system borks itself or throws up wierd errors during installation or an update, or you have to follow a bunch of guides inputting commands you are unfamiliar with to get basic funcionality working, you aren't going to trust the system enough to switch over to full time. A stable, well functioning system upon install is essential for new users.

It is very possible to do development work, however you will most likely need to be familiar, or willing to become familiar with, a containerized work flow. This is probably a good practice to get into regardless of distro you use. Bluefin/Aurora are specifically is targetted towards developers.

As far as packages go, you use bazaar for flatpak/gui apps, brew for CLI apps, distrobox for any random program from a different distro you might need, and podman for docker images. Layering is a last resort and should be reserved for apps that need to interact on a system level, most often VPNs with custom installers and some password managers.

Flatpak will be set up on install with decent defaults, so permission issues are less of an issue. Distrobox is also set up and easy to dive into if needed. Setting it up this way seperates user apps and system apps and makes the install much less prone to breaking un updates. It also updates in the system and flatpaks/brew apps in background without bothering the user, you just need to restart the machine every once in a while to upgrade to the next version, although this behavior can be modified with a simple terminal command.

Relying on flatpaks/brew means those apps will be up to date and you don't have to wait sometimes months for the distro to get an upgrade, which can happen with non-rolling release distros. Since they are all fedora based, the system will be fairly up to date while not bleeding edge like a rolling release distro, so it is rare to experience kernel regressions or those types of issues.

The default file system is btrfs with seperate system and home partitions, and it's set up to be able to roll back to a previous version from the grub menu if an update causes a problem. This is possible with other distros, but can take quite a bit of effort. I've done it in debian before and it was not intuitive, and if something went wrong after following the guide I followed, I would have no idea how to fix it and would just have to nuke the isntall and start over.

The main difference between the universal blue releases is that Bazzite has steam installed at the system level, and has Gnome, KDE, or KDE plus Steam Bigpicture modes available. Bluefin is Gnome focused, and Aurora is KDE focused, but steam is only available as a flatpak. It is easy to swtich between each release with a simple terminal command and there is almost no risk to your user files when you do so. It just swaps out the system layer and leaves your user partition alone.

This set up will not be limiting or cause problems unless you are wanting to explore different window managers or desktop environments outside of KDE or Gnome, or have an obscure device that the bazzite maintaners haven't installed support for, or have to use a vpn with a custom installer that needs system access, or use a password manager that isn't configured well in flatpak.

[–] Malix@sopuli.xyz 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Since gaming is the first priority, does he play competitive multiplayer games? Better check their anticheat state first, as some just flat out deny linux, full stop.

I have no real recommendation in regards of distro, but afaik either should do.

And what I gather, Bazzite has package management 'ujust' https://docs.bazzite.gg/Installing_and_Managing_Software/ - but beyond this hastily googled doc, I have no idea, never used Bazzite.

[–] iByteABit@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

ujust is not a package manager, the way I understand it from this thread is that it's just a convenience script that internally will use one of the other methods shown in the doc you mentioned (brew or flatpak for example). So it still seems risky to me not to have access to common linux package managers besides brew

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[–] brownmustardminion@lemmy.ml 3 points 3 weeks ago

I've tried many distros, Bazitte is by far the best for gaming without having to tinker. Fedora is not a good option imo because nvidia drivers are a pain in the ass.

I'd recommend he dual boot. Bazitte strictly for gaming due to it's lack of traditional package management. And arch, Debian, or Fedora for coding.

I personally use PopOS for work stuff as well.

[–] Chaser@lemmy.zip 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

If he's a dev, he probably is able to follow this guide:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Installation_guide

The result is a system, that has virtually every package you can imagine in the aur, always the newest packages - which is quite important for gaming performance and a really slim system.

For the gaming part I recommend Gamescope:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Gamescope

As desktop Plasma is a good choice for beginners. However I personally use Sway.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/KDE#Plasma
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Sway

[–] bradboimler@lemmy.world 4 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

I installed Arch for the very first time this past weekend. I am a software engineer with almost 30 years experience and some time less with Linux. I did my research beforehand: I watched a manual installation on YouTube and I went over the wiki.

And the manual installation was hard. I would not recommend it to a beginner.

he is still completely new to this so I want things to work out perfectly for his first experience.

This isn't Arch, sorry. My own Arch didn't boot the first time (but yes I was able to fix it quickly).

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[–] SirDankbud@lemmy.ca 2 points 3 weeks ago

I built a new gaming computer a month ago. After a couple hours of research, I chose Nobara. It was by far the easiest experience I have ever had setting up an OS and everything has worked flawlessly so far. Even my wife who isn't tech savvy at all has no issues using it. I cannot recommend it enough to new users who want an easy time gaming. I've been a linux user for almost twenty years, but I just wanted something easy that didn't need tinkering and Nobara delivered.

[–] Neikon@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

Bazzite is install and use. Perfect out the box experience

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