Pegjesus gonna have an aneurysm
this post was submitted on 24 Feb 2026
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Kerala India achieved developed nation level performance on HDI (human development index) indices in a few short decades with expansive land and policy reforms under a democratically elected communist party.
Communism is an extremely effective tool at shaking off feudalistic old world tendencies but, as a system, it is extremely economically handicapped in a world where the wealthiest nations are capitalist.
Which is why China has had to adopted a hybrid "state capitalism" / mercantilism to achieve its rapid economic ascent.
The PRC is socialist, public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy and the working classes control the state. Communism is a post-socialist mode of production that has not existed yet.
China is not "state capitalist" or mercantilist. Its a socialist market economy with a limited / restricted private sector, where the publicly owned portion dominates the economy, and private capital is not allowed to rise to the level of political power.
- The backbone of the economy is state ownership and socialist planning. 24 / 25 of the top revenue companies are state-owned and planned. 70% of the top 500 companies are State-owned. 1, 2 The largest bank, construction, electricity, and energy companies in the world, are CPC controlled entities, subject to the 5 year plans laid out by the central committee.
- Workplace democracy in action in the CPC.
- Is modern day china communist? Is it staying true to communist values?
- Didn't China go Capitalist with Deng Xiaoping? Didn't it liberalize its economy? Is China's drastic decrease in poverty a result of the increase in free market capitalist policies?
- Is the CPC committed to communism?
- The Long Game and Its Contradictions. Audiobook
- The myth of Chinese state capitalism. Did Deng really betray Chinese socialism?
- Tsinghua University- Is Socialism with Chinese Characteristics real socialism, or is it state Capitalism?
- Isn't China revisionist for having a capitalist sector of the economy, and working with capitalists? Why isn't it fully planned like the USSR was?
- Castro on why both China and Vietnam are socialist countries.
- Roderic Day - China has billionaires.
- What is socialism with Chinese characteristics (SWCC)?
- How is SWCC not revisionist? How is it any different from Gorbachev's market reforms?, 2
- Domenico Losurdo - is China state capitalist?, 2
To add to that, the whole idea of state capitalism is a bit of a misnomer. It basically says that while you have state owned enterprise, the internal capitalist relations within it remain largely the same. While that's true, there is a fundamental difference here. Capitalism is a system where people who own capital hire workers to exploit there labor with the purpose of increasing their capital. The goal of capitalist enterprise is to create wealth for the owners with any social benefits being strictly incidental. On the other hand, the purpose of state enterprise is to provide social value. Workers in state owned companies are producing things that the society needs. They are working for their own benefit and those of others around them. Therefore, the nature of work itself is fundamentally different from actual capitalism.
Thanks for that. Always interested in hearing different perspectives.
No probs!
And then you realize only half your audience has an issue with the colonization.
Unfortunately a lot of other instances let white / western supremacists set up shop there, and don't moderate them.
Not trying to start an argument: what are examples the biggest successes of communist regimes/movements
China is a prime example. It went from a century of humiliation and utter destruction in WW2 to becoming a super power that can challenge the US today. There is no precedent in human history for such a rate of development, and increase in a standard of living. We can look at some numbers to see just how stunning China's progress is.
90% of families in the country own their home giving China one of the highest home ownership rates in the world. What’s more is that 80% of these homes are owned outright, without mortgages or any other leans. https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2016/03/30/how-people-in-china-afford-their-outrageously-expensive-homes
The real (inflation-adjusted) incomes of the poorest half of the Chinese population increased by more than four hundred percent from 1978 to 2015. https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w23119/w23119.pdf
From 1978 to 2000, the number of people in China living on under $1/day fell by 300 million, reversing a global trend of rising poverty that had lasted half a century (i.e. if China were excluded, the world’s total poverty population would have risen) https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/China%E2%80%99s-Economic-Growth-and-Poverty-Reduction-Angang-Linlin/c883fc7496aa1b920b05dc2546b880f54b9c77a4
People in China enjoy high levels of social mobility in general https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/11/18/world/asia/china-social-mobility.html
Student debt in China is virtually non-existent because education is not run for profit. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jlim/2016/08/29/why-china-doesnt-have-a-student-debt-problem/
Chinese household savings hit another record high in 2024 https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/stock-market-today-dow-jones-bank-earnings-01-12-2024/card/chinese-household-savings-hit-another-record-high-xqyky00IsIe357rtJb4j
The typical Chinese adult is now richer than the typical European adult https://www.businessinsider.com/typical-chinese-adult-now-richer-than-europeans-wealth-report-finds-2022-9
Real wage (i.e. the wage adjusted for the prices you pay) has gone up 4x in the past 25 years, more than any other country. This is staggering considering it’s the most populous country on the planet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw8SvK0E5dI
From 2010 to 2019 (the most recent period for which uninterrupted data is available), the income of the poorest 20% in China increased even as a share of total income. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SI.DST.FRST.20?end=2019&%3Blocations=CN&%3Bstart=2008
By the end of 2020, extreme poverty, defined as living on under a threshold of around $2 per day, had been eliminated in China. According to the World Bank, the Chinese government had spent $700 billion on poverty alleviation since 2014. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/31/world/asia/china-poverty-xi-jinping.html
Over the past 40 years, the number of people in China with incomes below $1.90 per day – the International Poverty Line as defined by the World Bank to track global extreme poverty– has fallen by close to 800 million. With this, China has contributed close to three-quarters of the global reduction in the number of people living in extreme poverty. https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/04/01/lifting-800-million-people-out-of-poverty-new-report-looks-at-lessons-from-china-s-experience
China massively invests in public infrastructure. They used more concrete in 3 years than US in all of 20th century https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2014/12/05/china-used-more-concrete-in-3-years-than-the-u-s-used-in-the-entire-20th-century-infographic/
China also built 27,000km of high speed rail in a decade https://www.railjournal.com/passenger/high-speed/ten-years-27000km-china-celebrates-a-decade-of-high-speed/
Vietnam provides another great example, poised to become the fastest growing economy in Asia https://en.vneconomy.vn/vietnam-has-a-potential-to-become-the-fastest-growing-economy-in-asia.htm
And then there's DPRK which survived brutal sanctions after the fall of USSR, and looking like a modern nation today https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=vcGj0SMVLrI
Do Publicly Owned, Planned Economies Work?
Public transportation was efficient, extensive, and practically free. Subway fare was about eight cents in the 1970s, unchanged from the 1930s (Szymanski, 1984). Nothing comparable has ever existed in capitalist countries. This is because efficient, affordable and extensive public transportation would severely limit the profit-making opportunities of automobile manufacturers, petroleum companies, and civil engineering firms. In order to safeguard their profits, these firms use their wealth, connections and influence to stymie development of extensive, efficient and inexpensive public alternatives to private transportation. Governments, which need to keep private industry happy so that it continues to provide jobs, are constrained to play along. The only way to alter this is to bring capital under public control, in order to use it to meet public policy goals set out in a consciously constructed plan.
The Soviet Union placed greater stress on healthcare than their capitalist competitors did. No other country had more physicians per capita or more hospital beds per capita than the USSR. In 1977, the Soviet Union had 35 doctors and 212 hospital beds per 10,000 compared to 18 doctors and 63 hospital beds in the United States (Szymanski, 1984). Most important, healthcare was free. That US citizens had to pay for their healthcare was considered extremely barbaric in the Soviet Union, and Soviet citizens “often questioned US tourists quite incredulously on this point” (Sherman, 1969).
In China a notable example is the raising of the median income significantly, to almost 40k USD last I checked, essentially lifting a huge amount of people out of poverty.
The USSR raised life expectancy and HDI significantly, and when it collapsed both fell sharply in the resulting countries.
Was that income after Deng opened up China as the world's manufactory? That giant amount of support from capital seems to be more effective than any decision communism made.
You cannot take that "support" out of the context of the decisions made by communists. Without the efforts made in "Mao-era" china, agriculture, industrialization, education, etc., the reform and opening up would likely have gone differently, china would probably look more like India and Brazil. And during (and after) reform and opening up, china actively steered the economy and set priorities, they continued to hold, as dessalines points out, the commanding heights of the economy, and used 5 year plans. So yes, you can say it was the "support" (capital) that came into china which made them richer, but only in context.
Reform and Opening Up was a plan devised by communists to more quickly achieve communism, and was made in such a fashion that built upon the existing socialist system, not undermining it.
Both Mao and Deng era's both had foreign investment, and high growth rates compared to capitalist countries.
Both are still built on the foundation of socialism: 5 year plans, no private land ownership, public ownership commanding the heights of the economy, and a smaller capitalist sector for foreign investment.
From 1949-1978, the Mao Era, China’s GDP grew an average of 7% per annum. Mao sincerely wanted the Chinese to get rich, just that all that wealth must be distributed as equally as possible. This is reflected in China’s 1978 GINI coefficient being a very egalitarian 0.16. A GINI coefficient of zero means that all the income is evenly distributed to all citizens and a coefficient of one means one person has all the income and everybody else has nothing. As a comparison, Sweden’s is currently 0.25, the lowest in the world, China’s is 0.37, the US’s is 0.41 and for all of humanity, 0.65. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient
With the advent of Deng Xiaoping’s reforms and opening up China’s economy to do battle with Western capitalism(the Deng Era, 1979-2012), China’s economy has grown an average of 10% per annum, while America’s growth averaged 6%. A not-well-known point of history is that many of Deng’s reforms were actually started by Mao, Deng and Zhou Enlai, going back into the 70s and 60s, which helps explain the Mao Era’s phenomenal socioeconomic achievements. These earlier reforms were cleverly rebranded as “new” by Deng. Western capitalists eagerly lapped it up, in their lustful pursuit of Chinese profits, starting in 1978.
These imperial lies have continued into the Deng Era. China is still a communist and socialist country. Baba Beijing has simply used the West’s methods, markets, investment and technology to continue to advance the wellbeing of China’s people, within its non-capitalist economy. This is hard for most Westerners to wrap their heads around, that China has been and continues to be a communist and socialist country, till now, 2015, and will continue to be so as long as Baba Beijing is in power. This explains why the West has been relentlessly trying to overthrow the Communist Party of China (CPC), since liberation in 1949.
it did a lot of harm before the party leaders learned how to control it and it led to occupy wall street style protests in the late 80's which included the tiannamen square protest.
that event forced the party to devise ways to neuter the harmful aspects of capitalism that were taking root in the country because of deng's reforms and it's been a continuous try/fail effort ever since.
PRC, USSR, Cuba, Vietnam, DPRK. All succeeded where others failed in defeating western colonialist attempts, and lifted hundreds of millions of people out of poverty.
PRC deserves special recognition for lifting more people out of poverty in the past 30 years than any other country in history... so much so that world poverty is increasing if we leave it out.
The first was the USSR, which was dramatically uplifting for the working classes. It was followed by PRC, DPRK, Cuba, Vietnam, Laos, etc, and movements in countries like Venezuela are trying to establish socialism. All of these countries brought dramatic improvements to their living standards upon adopting socialism. For example, in Russia and China, life expectancies doubled, and functional literacy rates went from 20-30% to 99.9%. In the case of Cuba and the DPRK, we can see resiliance against sanctions that results in higher living standards contextually than peer capitalist countries.
