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What do you use for syncing your password manager between your Android phone and your PC? Apparently Nextcloud doesn't support two-way syncing on Android for some reason, and Syncthing-Fork is still untrustworthy since the disastrous handover. The AI generated profile picture of researchxxl doesn't exactly inspire confidence either, neither does his GitHub bio:

Hi! My name is Jonas and I like to use my coding skills from games and modding to continue work on the Syncthing for Android wrapper.

Everything about this person screams vibe coder.

Bitwarden is an alternative, but I don't like how non-standard it is. It's cumbersome to manage and backup, meanwhile the KeePass format is just a file that I can backup wherever and however I want and there are many frontends to choose from.

Have you solved this?

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[–] sbeak@sopuli.xyz 3 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

Personally, I use Keepass with syncthing and it works fine enough. If you don't really trust the new person behind Syncthing-Fork, you could always install the older version before the handover (I think before v3.4?).

If you really don't trust syncthing at all, you could just manually back it up. New passwords aren't made every day, so you could just copy the passwords database over between your devices whenever there's a change. That's what I did before I heard about syncthing, and is what I do with my music still, since I don't regularly update what music I listen to.

[–] Nighed@feddit.uk 2 points 3 hours ago

Keypass with the vault loaded onto a free OneDrive account.

Just back it up occasionally.

[–] Creat@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 7 hours ago

If you're using a keepass database, Keepass2Android can natively sync with many cloud options including self hosted and generic ones, even without specific "companion" apps. That's what I use. In my case, it's backed by my NextCloud, but it used to be Google drive before.

Just also sync the file on your PC, merging changes from different clients is part of the keepass database format and "just works".

Also VaultWarden works great if your can self host it, but I prefer keepass for a variety of features and integrations.

[–] roofuskit@lemmy.world 8 points 9 hours ago

Vaultwarden with the Bitwarden Android app and browser extension for my desktop. I already have a solid system for backing up the important data for all my docker containers. As soon as I added it, it was automatically added to that process.

My spouse has an account so if I side she can gain access to my passwords with a simple request. That's function is important to me.

[–] cymor@midwest.social 2 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

Nextcloud and favorite the file. It's worked reliably forms for years. I don't need to create new passwords on my phone, though.

[–] Luminous5481@anarchist.nexus 17 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

I use Vaultwarden. Each synced device is a backup, so there's no real need to keep anything further than that, but I do keep one backup of the server files anyway.

[–] versionc@lemmy.world 5 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Yeah, that's a good point. There are still a few cons though:

  1. If the server goes down (or your internet connection goes down), you can't add entries to your database. Local changes aren't allowed.
  2. Bitwarden doesn't support supplementing your passphrase with a key file.
  3. The Bitwarden clients aren't enitrely FOSS as far as I understand, the SDK used has a non-free license.

There are pros and cons in both alternatives, and there is unfortunately not a perfect solution. I like the idea and philosophy behind the KeePass format, so the increase in syncing complexity is worth it (for now at least).

[–] JasSmith@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 hour ago

Vaultwarden is FOSS (GPL).

It's true re adding passwords while the server is offline, but my server runs 24x7 and it's never down for more than a few minutes. If it goes down, I fix it. I also backup the encrypted DB regularly to cloud, so there is little risk of data loss. I am a very satisfied Vaultwarden user. Especially because it allows password sharing with my family. Everyone has an account.

[–] fizzle@quokk.au 8 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Syncthing-Fork is still untrustworthy since the disastrous handover

Maybe I'm OOTL on this?

I thought everyone concluded that it was poorly communicated but ultimately no indication of any foul play.

[–] Cyber@feddit.uk 3 points 10 hours ago

Correct.

That conversation has finished, the dust has settled and syncthing-fork is fine.

[–] teawrecks@sopuli.xyz 8 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

I use Nextcloud + KeepassDX on android and KeepassXC on PC. Have never had an issue. Changes on desktop/phone are propagated virtually immediately across devices.

[–] antbricks@lemmy.today 2 points 12 hours ago

Same here. There was a window of a couple of months when some NC background process wasn't running reliably in Android, but that got fixed (a year ago?) and it's been rock solid before and since.

[–] hanrahan@slrpnk.net 11 points 13 hours ago

bitwarden

seems odd you say how cumbersome it is to manage and backup (not an issue I've faced though) and yet you are using some cumbersome alternative ?

[–] bitwolf@sh.itjust.works 38 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Vaultwarden handles the syncing for me.

However I do export backups on both my phone and laptop just in case.

[–] versionc@lemmy.world 4 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Do you do it manually into e.g. protected json, or to a normal zip (the former doesn't support attachments as far as I know)? Or have you found a way to do it automatically? One con that I've read about this is that backups from one version is not guaranteed to work on another version. Thanks.

[–] Luminous5481@anarchist.nexus 10 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Well with Vaultwarden any synced device is a complete backup. So you don't need to worry about version issues.

[–] hitmyspot@aussie.zone 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

In the event of a server fail, can you export from any device?

[–] JasSmith@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 hour ago

Yes, but do not log out. If you do, you can't log back in, and you can't export. I'm paranoid so I still back up my encrypted db to cloud on a schedule.

[–] kokonmiikka@lemmy.zip 8 points 14 hours ago

Selfhost Vaultwarden. Browsers Bittwarden extensions and Android with Keyguard app.

[–] RodgeGrabTheCat@sh.itjust.works 23 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

On Android I use KeePassDx Syncthing-Fork. The handover was rough but the maintainer of the Play version joined researchxxl's team. Many on the Syncthing forum seem to have accepted research which is good enough for me. Also, KeePass's database in encrypted so no danger there.

[–] GlenRambo@jlai.lu 1 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Do you store TOTP in a seperate KeePass?

For me swappog between two Keepass DBs is annoying. I can't find anything that will sync my 2FAs.

[–] fizzle@quokk.au 5 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

I don't. Kinda seems silly to me.

To access a keepass file you already need 2 factors: the master password and access to the file.

[–] GlenRambo@jlai.lu 1 points 3 hours ago (2 children)

Its not really 2 factors if it's stored in the same DB though.

I came from Bitwarden where the community recommendation was to not store passwords and 2FA together in the cloud. If a beach orccurs and you lose both then there wasn't a point in having the 2FA.

Less of a risk with a local solution but still not sure.

[–] fizzle@quokk.au 1 points 2 hours ago

Yes, it is two factor, it's just that there is no additional factors required to get the TOTP.

If you don't use a password manager then you just remember your passwords. In this case the second factor is having access to a device that has your TOTP generator.

If you use keepass then you remember the password for your password db, and to access your passwords or TOTP you need access to a device with your keepass db.

[–] Tibi@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

If u have 2fa in the same database u can login on devices you don't trust. E.g. a coworkers computer/public computer in library.

[–] GlenRambo@jlai.lu 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Yeah. So that seems to remove the 2 from 2FA...

[–] Tibi@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 2 hours ago

Well yes, but no. If you only operate your password store on devices you trust, then even typing in your password on a device with a keylogger active, won't compromise your account since you have the 2nd factor (e.g. the TOTPs)

[–] IratePirate@feddit.org 4 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

I share your sentiment about Syncthing-Fork and the botched handoff to researchxxl. I have yet to implement the Termux-based workaround that allows me to use Syncthing from the browser without the Android app / wrapper. It looks pretty clean as it's just pure Syncthing with a little starter script.

[–] MalReynolds@slrpnk.net 2 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

For say a keypass db you don't need even that, Just sshd gets you rsync on your computer with cron or systemd timer / service... Personally I just use an old version of Syncthing-Fork though, security implications for local network are minimal.

[–] IratePirate@feddit.org 1 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

Tbh, I've never bothered to figure out how SSHing into an Android device works.

You're right about the security of older versions of Synching-Fork if you remember to configure it to only do syncs locally (it's not configured like that by default).

[–] 30p87@feddit.org 9 points 17 hours ago

KeePass2Android:

1000068180

[–] portnull@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

I just switched back to vaultwarden. My vaultwarden data is backed up as part of my nightly backups. Desktop and android use bitwarden clients. Seeing as https://codeberg.org/small-hack/open-slopware/src/branch/main states keepassxc is using AI to create PRs. Otherwise you could see how seafile might work for you to sync your keepass db. If you are on android with termux you can run syncthing in termux which also works and avoids the issue with the syncthing fork

[–] determinist@kbin.earth 5 points 17 hours ago

i self host, and back up, vaultwarden, and use bitwarden in browser and android.

[–] Smash@lemmy.self-hosted.site 4 points 15 hours ago

Passwords Nextcloud app

[–] ilmagico@lemmy.world 9 points 18 hours ago (9 children)

I use KeepassDX syncing via Nextcloud, works flawlessly. I also used to use Keepass2Android, also works very well.

Can you elaborate on the "nextcloud doesn't support 2-way syncing on android" statement? I can sync my Keepass database back and forth without issues.

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[–] themachine@lemmy.world 6 points 17 hours ago

I use keepass2android and "sync" via its native WebDAV support with my nextcloud instance as the source. Been working great forever.

[–] bismuthbob@sopuli.xyz 1 points 12 hours ago

I'm running the standard version of syncthing through termux at the moment. It lacks some of the power management options, but otherwise I've experienced no issues.

[–] mhzawadi@lemmy.horwood.cloud 6 points 18 hours ago

I migrated out of keypass and into vaultwarden, not looked back since.

[–] BozeKnoflook@lemmy.world 5 points 18 hours ago (2 children)

I use passwordstore.org which is basically a bash script that wraps GPG; but there is an Android client as well.

Everything is stored in encrypted files tracked by git. Files are synchronized by git/SSH to a server I run.

[–] versionc@lemmy.world 3 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

I actually used pass many years ago and I quite enjoyed it, except for the fact that the entry names are presented in clear text. You'd also have to manage your GPG secret which I'm not a fan of (in fact, my password manager is how I usually manage GPG and SSH keys in the first place). On the other hand, I guess you should keep a key file on each device on top of a passphrase even if you use a KeePass database, so I guess that point is moot. There are also no good way to include attachments. At that point Vaultwarden feels more convenient, but the more I'm thinking about it, the more I'm warming up to the idea. We'll see, maybe I'll give it a shot again.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Edit: I did some quick research and I found this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-qBChKG15Y

It brings up some pretty important security concern that still seem to be relevant.

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[–] Whooping_Seal@sh.itjust.works 2 points 15 hours ago

I still think a syncthing client of some form is ideal. As someone else mentioned there is the option of using the Syncthing Tray devs experimental android build. To avoid issues with sync-conflicts / maintain high-availability access to the most recent file, I sync the databse to a raspberry pi with the encryption option selected (not that the pi is untrusted per se, but it is a device that doesn't need access to the file, it just serves the most recent changes to other devices since often my laptop / phone / desktop are not all on at the same time).

[–] kokesh@lemmy.world 3 points 18 hours ago

Keepass for Android, my database is stored on OneDrive. Easy access on my win pc and android (KPA has built in sync for many cloud storage providers)

[–] s38b35M5@lemmy.world 3 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

I don't update my Keepass db often enough to need syncing. Maybe every other week or so I just pull the latest backup from my desktop from backblaze b2 to my phone, or if I change something on the phone, I send a copy to myself using signal "note to self." Then I manually merge the databases.

Pretty low-tech.

[–] versionc@lemmy.world 3 points 18 hours ago (3 children)

Yeah, I have a tendency to modify my database quite often. I often make new accounts, add attachments, modify passphrases on older accounts, etc. I modify it several times a week. I might be an outlier, and in that case I understand why people don't consider this to be a huge problem haha.

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