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Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).
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It comes down to price. You can buy used ThinkPads and replacement parts for them quite cheap a lot of the time.
It's been a while since I've looked at devices from places like System 76 but if I recall correctly they are still over a thousand dollars when a used ThinkPad T440P for example can be found for around two hundred dollars.
Framework laptops are interesting and I hope eventually the modularity allows the components to go down in price. Right now I was looking at a 16 (which all sold out within 3 hours of pre-order launch) but it comes out to easily over 3k CAD for a disassembled kit, skimping on RAM and an SSD.
yoo I didn't know about used/refurbished Thinkpads being that cheap, I just checked and indeed you can find a T480 with 16GB of RAM for $248 on Amazon!
T440P is cheap for a reason. Personally I don't want a 6 pound laptop with a decade old CPU and a crappy TN screen. Something like a used T480 is reasonable though I guess
Those linux laptops are too expensive and they are not available in some countries
Used thinkpad is much cheaper
Maybe there's a better place for this question, but how do you make sure a used laptop is safe? Or would removing Windows and installing Linux be enough?
I want to buy a laptop for Linux, and would buy a used one so that it's cheaper but I have to admit I worry about it. I know one could be worried even about new laptops and what manufacturers could be up to, but I feel like the unknown arbitrariness of a used laptop gets to me.
Because these are small shops that have limited availability outside North America, and are fairly expensive compared to Thinkpads which are widely used by corporations, and can be found pretty cheaply.
Because of better accessibility. How so?
Because not everyone has the money to afford these new and expensive laptops designed for a niche market. They are still enthusiast-grade products, the prices speak for themselves.
Because not everyone comes from Europe / the US, so it's not easy to find these with affordable shipping.
Because these laptops are only normally offered new, which, for responsible and personal ownership, is excessive. There are thousands of used hardware lying around, why not put some life back into them instead?
It comes down to price, availability and ethical concerns. Unless money doesn't mean anything to you, why do you need a $1000 laptop when someone wants a device for higher education or personal casual use? The world doesn't need more rampant marketing of niche, hyped-up tech. While a fully-FOSS system may be the ideal machine for every Linux enthusiast, we live in a material world with finite resources and chasing after some unicorn laptop is unsustainable.
Because not one of those laptops have a TrackPoint style mouse.
You mean the nipple mouse?
for a lot of people (me included), a cheap second hand thinkpad (or dell pro) with a light distro would be more than enough to cover their computing needs for years.
I hope nobody recommends Thinkpads manufactured after 2020. They're pure garbage in so many ways, that there's no point to list them all.
Thinkpads are cheap and accessible basically everywhere. They are business-grade devices and you can get one when folks retire their machines. A lot of places practically give them away. They were just gonna get thrown out anyways.
Framework is dumb expensive - a 16 even skimping out on RAM/HDDs comes out to over 3k CAD, and that's for a disassembled kit -- pre-built with full components comes out to easily over 3.5k, which is like a MacBook price for the promise of upgradability down the line.
System76 are rebranded shitty components from Chinese manufacturers. They're not better for Linux than any general consumer laptop, and their entire position is basically branding regarding freedom and 1776. Ironic that a company so deeply American in nature basically just resells garbage from China.
In the US a lot of business use them. It's not uncommon to see a pallet of "old" ThinkPads at the swapmeet selling for less than $200. We're talking x1 Carbons. These machines have upgradable SSDs, Wifi, and battery. For less than $300 you can get a BEAST of a machine that runs Linux very very well.
I've never met a Thinkpad that didn't like Linux :)
For me it is mostly the price. I don't need much and a Seconds Hand ThinkPad ist enough for my needs and much less expensive than buying a New Laptop.
15 years ago I would have been surprised to hear that Thinkpads are cheap laptops !
Thinkpads tend to have excellent build quality, solid firmware and well thought out design. Price to performance on second-hand models is always outstanding and their popularity ensures hardware compatibility with Linux.
Of the brands you named, I just don't trust the hardware. Tuxedo computers for example uses Tongfang white-label computers that they just slap their logo on. Quality control isn't as thorough as Lenovo's, firmware is sketchy, TDP tends to be all over the place and keyboard quality doesn't come close.
Thinkpads also have-- and I can't stress the importance of this enough-- a nipple. I don't really use it, but if you try to take it away from me I'll bite you.
Cause thinkpads are cheap and easy to come by
Source: i work in ewaste
Recently I had to decide what laptop I buy and I decided to buy an used Thinkpad T480s for 260€
I was browsing in the Framework and Slimbook websites but the price it's more than three times. It's true that they are new and the Thinkpad is used, but I was looking for Framework and Slimbook in second-hand websites but I didn't find nothing.
Lenovo makes great computers. They have amazing price-to-performance ratios.
The only reason I wouldn't buy Lenovo is they were caught twice shipping laptops with spyware, and on my NAS their upgrade firmware contained google ad banners. While this will not affect a linux reinstall it just shows they are a shit company
American producers are shipping NSA spyware as well. If this is a concern (which it should be), best thing is to install Linux on it yourself.
What do you mean by NSA spyware? Anything that I can think of along those lines isn't really the same thing as what Lenovo did.
That's not really the same thing. It's also bad, but the producers aren't shipping that themselves, the NSA modifies it the devices after shipment. That's in some ways worse, since installing Linux yourself won't help against adversarial firmware/hardware.
Refurbished ThinkPads are awesome!
Sent from my ThinkPad T580 (with both an internal and removable battery, I get 10+ hours of battery life)
I've heard of potential security issues when buying them. How can I mitigate that - buying from a safe source, wiping them etc.?
Thanks it sounds like simply wiping the system is enough to get around security flaws.
We're talking about Linux here. You'll probably wipe it anyways. Chances are slim the company that used it before put Arch on it.
Always wipe and do a fresh install. If you're installing Linux, its unlikely that the refurbisher will have installed your flavour of Linux anyway. If you want to dual-boot with Windows, most business ThinkPads come with a Windows Pro licence - just download the ISO and install it fresh, then install Linux.
yeah good luck getting those brand outside of US
I bought a Framework once. The build quality was better than System76, but not great. However, Framework is not a Linux laptop. They designed it for Windows and only afterwards they were surprised to find that people wanted it for Linux.
A lot of Linux laptops don't have HiDPI displays because they're not really compatible.
Example Framework: https://community.frame.work/t/tracking-state-of-hidpi-on-linux/8301
For years people have been trying to work around Framework's poor display choice. And they're still trying.
If you have a regular DPI display, you get to avoid a whole class of bugs and issues.
If you wanna have a good time with Linux, you need some mechanical sympathy.
Btw, tbh, brb, I've had good success with the Dell XPS 13 and the Lenovo X1 Carbon. System76 build quality was meh.