m0darn

I think its like any other utility (water or electricity or methane) except that you pay for the generation separately. So imagine that for electricity you pay a service fee to the grid operator to keep your connection capable of a certain amperage, and you separately pay the hydroelectric dam for the power you use.

ISPs are the grid operator saying, yes you pay for 200 amp service but you've already bought enough power this month. Don't run your AC for the rest of the month.

Right I get that, but the underlying value that the prohibitions are designed around is promoting humility and preventing vanity.

I don't think jewelry wearing is compatible with the Amish conception of propriety and modesty but I'm not going to say it wouldn't happen.

Can't use 100's in a lot of places.

It's not, but it seems Argentina doesn't think people should be allowed to own their phones.

Makes total sense to me. He loved his husband and wanted him to be happy, but wasn't sexually attracted to him. But not a homophobe, so willing to try to make husband happy.

Sorry that it has taken me a long time to respond, I've been at the cabin, away from my phone.

Yeah the problem is that because of the history of discrimination we don't have words for relatively harmless discriminatory tendencies. So if I were to say

I have racist tendencies

it sounds like I'm admitting to being a "capital R" racist, when what I mean is,

I was taught incorrect stereotypes by media as a child, and sometimes despite my best efforts to be egalitarian, these biases cause me to make bad judgements. I try to notice when this happens, to make sure I treat people fairly.

Yeah I'm not saying anyone is a jerk for having sexual interest only with feminine people with vaginas and boobs, I'm just saying that it's kinda trans-erasure (and therefore technically transphobic) to say

I'm exclusively attracted to cis-women

Because a person doesn't know the assigned birth sex of every woman they've ever been attracted to.

OurToothbrush was offended because she is a transwoman and attracts men that think they're exclusively attracted to cis-women. She's on the front line of transphobia, and searching for a partner puts her at a too real risk of being murdered by a transphobe.

Yeah it sounds like absolution is a relevant term. People like to think that there are only biological males and biological females and that's that. It's not that simple. People like to think that there are racists and non-racists and that's that. It's not that simple. People like to think that there are transphobes and non-transphobes and that's that. It's not that simple. To me, being an ally is is about supporting a community to defeat unfair discrimination. Imo supporting individuals with friendship isn't exactly the same but it's better than nothing.

Sorry that it has taken me a long time to respond, I've been at the cabin, away from my phone.

Yeah the problem is that because of the history of discrimination we don't have words for relatively harmless discriminatory tendencies. So if I were to say

I have racist tendencies

it sounds like I'm admitting to being a "capital R" racist, when what I mean is,

I was taught incorrect stereotypes by media as a child, and sometimes despite my best efforts to be egalitarian, these biases cause me to make bad judgements. I try to notice when this happens, to make sure I treat people fairly.

Yeah I'm not saying anyone is a jerk for having sexual interest only with feminine people with vaginas and boobs, I'm just saying that it's kinda trans-erasure (and therefore technically transphobic) to say

I'm exclusively attracted to cis-women

Because a person doesn't know the assigned birth sex of every woman they've ever been attracted to.

As a person that actually torrented a Linux iso on Friday, thank you! Lol

Yes saying that you're exclusively attracted to cis women is an easy short hand.

I think OurToothbrush is frustrated with the erasure of transwomen that you fail to identify as trans.

I think when you said:

I had never met a transfem whose body I found attractive.

You don't actually know if you've ever found a trans-woman attractive because you don't know the birth details of every women you've ever found attractive. Some of them could be trans.

It's not something I was particularly cognizant of either before seeing OurToothbrush's reaction.

I think I would have trouble getting it up for a blow job from a smoking hot women after I learned she had a penis. I'm willing to concede that that is technically transphobic. I don't think it changes the fact that I am an ally of the trans rights movement.

Just say you're a cis-het male ally and I think everyone will know what you mean. It's too bad this has been sick an ugly experience, it's still a hell of a lot easier than gender dysphoria.

Hey MapleEngineer,

I've seen you around before and know you're acting in good faith, and I believe you're an ally, or at least a potential ally, to the trans community.

I'm chiming in here because I replied to OurToothbrush earlier to give her a cis-het male ally's perspective, and suggest that she might have more success with a less confrontational strategy.

She suggested I might have better luck explaining her objection to you, or at least that she would appreciate me trying to help you understand her point.

Both your comments are coming fast and furious so I'm trying to respond to your latest.

So here goes:

Your basic point was that you're exclusively interested in cis-women, and that this is a preference you have, everyone is entitled to preferences so what's the big deal. It doesn't mean you're not an ally.

Life is complex. Just as there's nobody that's purely "racially white" (race isn't real, but that's beside the point, or maybe it is the point....), there's nobody that's purely female or male. Obviously most people's bodies develop either testicles or ovaries not both, but: there is a sizable portion of the population where it's not so clear cut. Ultimately: Every person has mutations in their DNA that skew their body towards and away from what's considered masculine/feminine.

While sexual orientation towards masculine/feminine people doesn't seem to be strongly influenced by culture (ie I don't think you can raise a kid to be gay), what a person perceives to be masculine/feminine/trans IS strongly a product of their culture and conditioning.

Viewing sexuality and gender through the framework I laid out above and considering her experiences may help you understand why OurToothbrush sees transphobia where you see sexual preference.

OurToothbrush's experience seems to be that lots of 'cis-het-men' say they aren't attracted to trans-women, but are in fact attracted to trans-women like her. When they discover that she is a trans-woman they have very negative reactions. Since the (former) suitors were attracted to her until they guessed she was assigned male at birth, but before they had learned the status of her genitalia, how can she conclude anything other than transphobia? Do you see how their reaction is basically the same as your statement?

I pointed out to her that transphobia and homophobia are beaten into men/boys and if they have a negative reaction to learning that a women that they're attracted to was assigned male at birth, it doesn't mean they aren't allies, just that they haven't unlearned that phobic conditioning. It's a type of internalized latent transphobia that has infected me too. I don't dwell on it because as a person in a committed monogamous relationship for over half of my life, it is unlikely to matter, and I suspect it would be a monumental undertaking to unlearn. The effort is better spent healing rifts between allies.

Can you understand why when someone says "I'm exclusively interested in cis-women" a person with OurToothbrush's experiences might hear "trans-women are gross".

Tldr; I think I see where you're both coming from. We cis-het-men are notoriously fragile, especially when our allyship is questioned. I think it will be more effective for people trying to point out people's latent transphobia to take an educational/ collaborative tone at first, and it's something I'm going to try to do a better job of helping people understand.

Honestly, thank you two for having this spat so that I could map it out in my head better, I'm not sure I've done the best job typing it out though. You're both welcome to tell me to fuck off.

Having read about your experiences (elsewhere in the thread, you hadn't posted them when I started my prior comment) I understand your reaction better.

I'll try to explain it to MapleEngineer.