this post was submitted on 10 May 2024
398 points (92.5% liked)
Technology
59534 readers
3183 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
This is more than enough to turn me off from the idea of neural anything in the brains of humans. Especially if it's all being ran by a fledgling sycophant like Musk.
Even if it's not drastic, I don't want to know what the worst case scenario would've been.
Idk... I don't like Elon, but this is actually incredibly huge overall. he controlled a computer with his mind. That's amazing for people who could benefit from it. I think it's worth continuing down this path, just to see how it evolves. I'm sure the man knew the risks and still chose to do it, meaning it was worth it to him.
This isn't something new to nueralink. Brain-machine interfaces have existed for quite some time. Neuralink is one of a number of companies that are exploring directly implanting these devices rather than using an externally attached (hence, easily removable) interface, but the core thesis of "Brain control computer" isn't any kind of grand leap forward. That's just Musk's marketing.
I saw a dude play chess with his mind where otherwise he couldn't. I've never even heard of tech like this, so it's 100% new to me lol
Is it because you are unfamiliar with adaptive tech? Eye tracking devices allowing quadriplegic people to interact with computers by looking at them and blinking have been around since at least the mid 00s. Like a decade ago the “mind reading” external tech got cheap enough for simplified toys to be made with it. Implanting it directly into the body is a lot of risk for very little benefit.
I just think it's cool, but fuck me right?
If you think it’s cool I would hope you think it’s even cooler than you can do this without surgery and that there are literal cheap ass toys you can buy to play with yourself?
You're presupposing that surgical implants can't be more responsive, intuitive, speedy, or sophisticated than an external device. The eye trackers are very useful but objectively pretty limited. Non-invasive EEG is weak and distorted because there is skull and more brain in the way, so "resolution" is limited.
If better outcomes are possible by putting electrodes as close to the signal source as can be, why not explore that option?
It feels ridiculous that I even need to say this, but you don’t do it because the risk:benefit ratio is lopsided as hell.
Risks: die from sepsis, have your body reject the implant, the parent company goes out of business and your implant no longer functions (this has happened with several startups), etc
Benefit: move mouse and click faster
Move mouse and click faster is a big deal when it's the only way you can interact with the world. And it's just a mouse right now, but what about robotic hands? A thought-controlled wheelchair? A tiny bit of agency? Technology is iterative and built on failure, and you want to tell the people trapped in non-functional bodies that it will never get any better?
I feel like I’m doing nothing but repeating this: the only way to do that is not with an implant! It’s not implant or nothing!
Right now it is not those things, and I’m going to need you to step way the fuck back since your starting premise is that I’m not physically disabled and have no loved ones that are or could benefit from safe, effective adaptive technology. Maybe if it was your cousin or sister you’d have a little more concern about just tossing them into a meat grinder because some tech bro thinks “go fast, break things” is a policy that can and should be translated to human health.
I do not and will not accept disabled people being sacrificed in the name of progress. They can’t even do this shit in fucking monkeys, bro. Come on.
It's experimental tech, I wouldn't want to be the Guinea pig either.
However, if I was quadriplegic and could only use the somewhat limited external tech, and a significant portion of my life was interacting with a computer. Fuck yeah the risk is worth a performance boost. Especially considering this is going to be a lot safer and more powerful when it hits the mass market
There is no such thing as an implant or surgery with no risk of sepsis or rejection. The risk may be low in young, healthy patients (ie, not people who are quadriplegic because that leads to many other health concerns with surgeries), but it’s never zero.
If you’re cool with risking that, okay, that’s your body. Personally I want to live.
I never said it was, and for some people it will be worth it.
I'm not going to get Elon's stupid chip, I'm just saying it's not as one sided as you say
Not the person you were responding too but I'd love to learn more about these toys/tech. Are there some key words that would help me search? I'm having some trouble sifting through the search results.
https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16826100006
Neural Impulse Actuator or brain-computer interface.
I think the most famous one was the star wars jedi force trainer? Some people say it's fake but.. it's like a headset you put on that they claim reads your brain waves and it controls a little fan that switches on and off to make a ball in a tube float
They’re usually marketed as “mind control” toys and are operated with a headset that sends a signal to hidden fans that control whatever object it is you’re supposed to be manipulating. Mattel came out with one called Mindflex that’s pretty complicated looking and has a matching price tag, there are some cheaper Star Wars branded ones too. Not sure what brand I tried as it was over a decade ago, but it was a two player game where you tried to move the ball towards the other player along a track.
Just because you never heard of it doesn't mean it hasn't existed...
released in 2008
https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16826100006
[I never said it didn't exist but cool I guess.]
Especially if the extent of it is that it lets you move a mouse. How does that offer any improvement over eye tracking adaptive tech?