this post was submitted on 11 Jul 2024
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So, a dark pattern is a design that tries to trick the user into something. But what is the word for "knowing what the user wants, blatantly ignoring it and imposing the companies will anyway"?
Example: I think YouTube shorts are a terrible format, and I find them generally irritating. So I click the X on the element in YouTube that has a bunch of side scrolling cards, where each card is one of these shorts. YouTube informs me it will hide them for 30 days and then they'll be back.
Another example, Windows Update. I've set all the group policy settings so it should never restart and update without me triggering it. But, if I allow it to download the update, then damn my group policy settings, it is going to apply that update and restart whenever it wants.
!assholedesign@lemmy.world ?
My guess is a combination of user-hostile design and deceptive compliance. I wish there were a catchier term for it that captured the nefarious nature of what you mean.
Enshittification
Enshittification will often involve doing things like this, yes. But as the link itself states, the actual meaning—per Doctorow's original definition—is an entire process, and a little more descriptive. These things are not the same, one is just frequently a symptom of the other.
Sorry if this comes across as pedantic, I'm in a personal quest, of sorts, to protect the original meaning because I think it's too important to lose. To anyone else reading this: please, don't use enshittification when you really only mean "the platform is doing something bad."
For the quoted behavior, I'm a big proponent of "asshole design."
In other words, asshole design is only one part of the enshititification process.
Yeah, I think you could say that :^)
The most important things to remember about enshittification are the reasons why it happens in the first place and the particular manner in which it does, time and time again. To anyone interested in this topic, consider giving Doctorow's talk a watch. It's great, and explains all of this really well.
You know that it's not a new concept, right? Just a new word for a specific type of rent seeking that has plagued capitalism forever.
It's nice to see people learning economics from YA fiction authors, but read some books man
Any pre-existing name for this specific type of rent seeking you'd rather people used instead? For what it's worth, I believe enshittification has its own benefits.
There are better ways to express yourself than this.
Being a YA fiction author does not diminish the worth of one's ideas or their other works. Cory also worked with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, which is absolutely a position that, coupled with his many years of studying the digital landscape, gives him a level of insight into it that makes people interested in what he has to say about it, and for good reason. It's not merely about economics.
If you think people could do the subject, themselves, or others better in this regard by consuming better material, you could point a better direction than "read some books"
I'm just annoyed that people think rent seeking is some newly discovered concept. I'm not sure if there's a name for the very specific type we're referring to and I'm not sure there needs to be.
I think we'd be much better off if people actually understand the underpinning concept rather than having a thin and shallow understanding of just one single way it manifests.
I'll let the opening paragraph of the "rent seeking" wiki page to show why:
(Emphasis mine)
On the wiki itself, each one of those items in the list I bolded has an entire wiki page about it and I'm pretty certain what is called "enshittification" fits into at least one of them.
I just wish people would care about the actual thing that's going on and not just one aspect of one type of the thing.
Edit: for any downvoters, look at my response to the reply below for clarification. Yes I'm glad that a small group of terminally online nerds in the tech industry have finally discovered one aspect (and consequence) of rent seeking. That's not really my issue.
If it is not indeed a new concept, it seems a great deal of people either didn't know about it, or refused to care. Rather than be annoyed at the rediscovery, perhaps a better outlook would be to rejoice that these same ideas are reaching more people through the new words than it did with the old?
The problem is, they're not actually learning about anything real, they're learning about one specific outcome of rent seeking in the modern world that they only noticed because of their profession. By giving this very narrow and specific concept a cute name, and making that shit popular or whatever has literally prevented young people from understanding these important economic concepts on any real level.
So yeah I'm glad that a small portion of terminally online tech nerds have finally discovered a major form of rent seeking in their industry and identified it as a problem. But then they just stop there as if it exists in a vacuum. I just wish they'd read some actual books (or hell, if you don't want to turn off the screen, audio books?) about the subject rather than just repeat some clever term over and over.
That's my problem. I guess it's nitpicky. But I do believe there are people who will now never learn another single thing about economic concepts that affect their lives because they're not even aware that this "newly discovered phenomenon" is just one small aspect of a much larger problem that is endemic to all of capitalism. They just think it's this quirky thing that only affects tech.
It's easier to just put up with a small change you dislike rather than search for an alternative and then learn it. Companies do this on purpose to avoid losing too many users while maximizing taking advantage of them. They can do this when they're the ones in control of the software running on your computer/phone.
Proprietary software, because this doesn't happen when the users can remove the anti-features. You don't need to personally be a programmer but you do need to find like-minded people. A free software alternative to proprietary programs probably already exist (free as in freedom) but they may not work exactly like the proprietary one, or not yet be complete.
YouTube have been doing that sort of thing for years though. Do you remember the push to have everyone switch to a Google+ account with a real name attached?
They'd ask if you wanted to do the aforementioned, and if you said no, they responded "OK we'll ask again later."
No "Never ask me this again.", just the implicit "f--k you, we're going to pester you with this over and over again until you sign up."
After they got enough sign-ups they quit asking. And then Google+ went down the Swanee, so they relented and decided that maybe it was OK for people to have pseudonymous accounts after all. It only took years for that to happen.
Can't see how short-form content is going to fail in the same way, so there'll be nothing here to teach them the lesson again.
It's a language game too. Target recently changed their credit card reader screen - it's been annoying about their rewards program for a while, but before it was "skip" to pass the screen, now the button is "not now". Skip is more of a "no" than "not now". Either way, though, they're shoving their easier shopper tracking down everyone's throats.
Have you tried blocking them with uBlock Origin?
Gotta use "medium mode," and then allow scripts individually until the site isn't broken.
More people should be aware of this hidden setting in uBlock Origin.
I also use the element picker to straight up remove those fake "sign up to read the rest" "pop-ups" that grey the page out and stop you from scrolling. Can usually get past some of the lazier pay walls that way.
same, i use the picker for all kinds of things.
Hmm I haven't tried this. Thanks for the suggestion.
It works wonders. I've blocked so much crap on YT. Everything including the shopping ads, the little white watch more popus, the related video popups, and whatever else I've forgotten about.
My home feed is nothing but actual videos I can watch - no shorts, catagories, special promotions or other junk.
I also set my bookmark to the subscriptions page, that way I always start there. No need to "ring that bell" when all the latest stuff I've subscribed to is the first I see.
Can you block updates via hosts file?