this post was submitted on 28 Sep 2024
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Memes

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[–] H4rdStyl3z@lemmy.ml 18 points 1 month ago (9 children)
[–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 27 points 1 month ago (15 children)

You can fight the trolley itself instead of justifying supporting genocide.

PS this is the real world not a meme. Political power is not a trolley problem, it is a matter of organization and education. You disempower yourself and others by pretending you can only backseat cheerlead a genocide. Instead of supporting this, go and join an organization that is actually opposing it and start doing work.

In the US, every student is eventually presented with lessons on the Holocaust and asked to think about what they would do. Right now, to be honest, your answer would have to be, "support it using poorly thought out propaganda".

[–] curiousaur@reddthat.com -1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Absolutely. But you should also flip that switch real quick before getting to work fighting it. Just in case.

[–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 month ago (1 children)

No, you shouldn't, because this is the real world and not a trolley problem. Providing electoral support to genociders helps to entrench them and these discussions have the wrong framing when it comes to how political power works. I already mentioned this. Did you read my comment?

[–] curiousaur@reddthat.com -1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Yes you absolutely should. If you can effortlessly vote for the lesser evil in a way that doesn't take anything away from the other fight, just do it real quick. Any argument to the contrary is accelerationism.

If you are an accelerationist, then get bent, you're wrong.

[–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Backseat cheerleading genociders, and telling other people to do so, is not helping. It makes you complicit and spreads a false and anemic idea of how political power works. You should be fighting them, not doing mental gymnastics for how you can still justify supporting genociders.

There is nothing strategic in what you are describing, it is actually self-defeating and this is why you are told this logic from on high.

As I originally said, join an org and fo actual work against genociders. Be part of the solution, not part of the genocide-excusing problem.

[–] curiousaur@reddthat.com -1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

There's no mental gymnastics to flipping that switch real quick, then fighting the real fight. It's you who's doing gymnastics trying to wrongly convince folks not to. The length of your post alone proves the gymnastics.

[–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

There's no mental gymnastics

You're using a strained trolley problem analogy.

then fighting the real fight.

Anyone fighting the real fight has already been fighting and knows that your vote shaming for genociders is counterproductive.

It's you who's doing gymnastics trying to wrongly convince folks not to.

How am I wrong?

The length of your post alone proves the gymnastics.

My post was not long lol. Though most of it was me repeating myself because your response didn't address what I said. Same for this last response, too!

[–] curiousaur@reddthat.com 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

You are entirely missing pragmatism my friend. It's tragically important.

[–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Your approach is not pragmatic, it is just what you have been told to do by your masters. It does nothing but entrench the genocuders and ensure that they will never have to think about you electorally. It's a self-defeat.

I speak in terms of building leverage and organizations.

Though really, the issue here seems to be that you refuse to engage with what I say.

[–] LemmeAtEm@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

you: "Yes you absolutely should tacitly support genocide. If you don't tacitly support genocide then you're an accelerationist."

There are other candidates you can vote for that are vastly lesser evils than both the fascist democrats and fascist republicans; candidates who are not actively funding and perpetrating genocide but actually, get this, opposing it. If instead of voting for one of those, you still choose to support a party committing genocide, you aren't just an accelerationist and wrong, you're fucking despicable, evil.

[–] curiousaur@reddthat.com -2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

False. It's too late. We're a month away from the election. Vote Kamala, the lesser evil, then join the Bernie campaign or the DSA to make some real change over the next 4 years. Now is pragmatically not the time for such battles. Know when to fold em.

[–] LemmeAtEm@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

"Now is not the time to oppose genocide."

Your reprehensibility is confirmed. History will look upon people like you as on those who supported Nazis but pretended the concentration camps were just a bit much.

[–] curiousaur@reddthat.com 0 points 1 month ago

Bad faith actor here. Mark this username.

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[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 26 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Let's pretend for a second that voting blue would stop the slaughter at "just" the Palestinians (it doesn't).

If you think you're knowingly sacrificing an entire people to annihilation just so save your own skin, and you can not only live with that but argue in favor of it instead of redacting your entire government, you're a fucking nazi. Peddle your them-or-us genocide support somewhere else you blue maga piece of shit.

[–] TC_209@hexbear.net 22 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (5 children)

Just openly admitting you support genocide. Disgusting. And don't even pretend you care about anyone represented in the bottom half of the image; if Democrats said murdering trans folks was necessary to beat Trump, you'd support that too.

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[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 22 points 1 month ago

Time to sieze the trolley and build new tracks.

[–] OprahsedCreature@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Fun fact: The United States actually has more than 2 parties

The More You Know

[–] Toribor@corndog.social 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

This message brought to you by Jill Stein who pops up every four years to grift money and accomplish nothing except cozying up to Putin. I guess there is still the brain worm dead animal guy?

Third parties in the US are unserious. I wish that weren't the case but that's the reality.

[–] OprahsedCreature@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 month ago

Let's steel man your argument and say you're 100% correct. Throwing away your vote or not voting is still morally better than voting for someone who won't commit to not enabling a genocide.

And that's assuming your predicate is correct, which it's not.

[–] H4rdStyl3z@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Oh, please tell me which third party candidate not only has a real shot at this election but is also not just a far-right grifter in disguise.

[–] OprahsedCreature@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Pretty much all but the libertarian party. Turns out if enough people vote for a candidate they get elected. Weird huh?

[–] heggs_bayer@hexbear.net 10 points 1 month ago

A more accurate picture would have all of the people on the republican track on the democrat track too, just covered with a tarp to conceal their real aims.

Also, tha US flag shouldn't be on either track since neither of the two right wings of the capitalist party would dare throw away the empire that furthers their and their masters' (the capitalist class) interests.

[–] Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 month ago

I have a plan, hear me out,

[–] Binette@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 month ago
[–] bumpusoot@hexbear.net 1 points 1 month ago

Real life.

Is not.

A fucking.

Trolley problem.

You are actually allowed to break the car and turn off the power.