I just picked up the highly hyped Blue Prince. On the other hand reviews have also called it a very niche game. I like puzzle games to a certain extent and roguelikes, but these are subjective experiences.

Anyways, I was hoping to get the gist of it and get into a groove and decide if I like it within the refund period.

The game mechanics are explained through notes in the game at it took me 80 minutes to reach a point where an important mechanic is explained.

This could have been done much earlier, I wonder why the developer delayed the explanation when it's just useful information

Other games also front load the prologue with long tutorials and cutscenes. So by the time you get into the meat of the game the refund window is out.

The other elephant in the room is if steam refunds are meant as a demo for everything or just to check technical issues like FPS and network connection issues

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[–] ImplyingImplications@lemmy.ca 36 points 3 days ago (1 children)

You can always request a refund while outside the 2 hour limit, it's just going to be manually reviewed instead of automatic.

The time limit is arbitrary. There are lots of games that can be finished within a few hours. I've heard some devs say their short games are refunded at much higher rates than longer ones and recommend ensuring a game is at least 2 hours long. It's like YouTube paying more money to creators who make videos that are 10min+. Now you have videos that could have been 2 minutes stretched out for meta reasons.

I doubt Blue Prince specifically tries to hide game mechanics for 2 hours to prevent people from refunding it. It's just a slow burn puzzle game.

[–] SoloCritical@lemm.ee 18 points 3 days ago

This is the answer.. the 2 hour “limit” is just the window in which it will almost certainly be automatically refunded.. anything more than that 2 hour limit and they will actually look into your reason why.. I’ve refunded games over the 2 hour limit for reasons like “game isn’t what I thought it would be” or “just not very fun” and I’ve never been turned down over it.

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 26 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Yes, the two hour limit affects game design. Based on what I've read about Blue Prince, it probably didn't affect that one much at all. The business model always affects the game design. When games were expecting to be rentals, the first few levels would be front loaded with the best that the game had to offer, and then later levels would be more phoned in. In the arcades, games would be louder to catch more attention, they'd be harder to make you put in another quarter, they'd reduce downtime to get the next person on the machine, etc.

[–] icecreamtaco@lemmy.world 12 points 3 days ago (2 children)

When games were expecting to be rentals, the first few levels would be front loaded with the best that the game had to offer, and then later levels would be more phoned in

Still happens today. First impressions matter, budgets are finite, and sometimes reviewers only play the first few parts.

[–] PapstJL4U@lemmy.world 1 points 8 hours ago

Yeah, the theory if front-loaded design is just reality of game development reality. No, D2 Ac4 wasn't limited because of rentals - it was bad,because one year of crunch and still nit enough time does this to a product.

Halo1 last third is bad, because they did not have enough time, nit because they cared about rentals.

Game content dev generally starts at the beginning.

[–] imecth@fedia.io 15 points 3 days ago (1 children)

sometimes reviewers only play the first few parts.

Not just the reviewers unfortunately, games shed players at every step, it's why most games are front-loaded and fall off the further you get into them.

[–] Maestro@fedia.io 10 points 3 days ago (2 children)

I always find it interesting to see the percentages drop on Steam achievements when you progress through a game. The drop-off curve is very different from game to game. I always wonder about the people who drop off just before finishing the game.

[–] imecth@fedia.io 6 points 3 days ago

I always wonder about the people who drop off just before finishing the game.

They probably don't want the game to end, there's a certain finality that comes with an ending. I've had this happen to me for a few games and books but i usually power through.

[–] EnsignWashout@startrek.website 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

I always wonder about the people who drop off just before finishing the game.

That's me. It used to be common for games to have a sharp ramp up in challenge at the end boss, and I often don't have the time to get through that.

So I habitatually abandon games when I feel close to the end, and I watch the ending on a stream, instead of playing it.

I realize that minimal research could tell me which games are which, but even less research finds me a decent stream of the game ending.

[–] tal@lemmy.today 22 points 3 days ago (1 children)

The other elephant in the room is if steam refunds are meant as a demo for everything or just to check technical issues like FPS and network connection issues

I'm pretty sure that the refund window isn't primarily intended to create an ad-hoc demo of games, but to let you return a game that doesn't function correctly on your system.

Game developers who do want to create a demo can (though I'll admit that it's a less-common route than one might expect).

https://store.steampowered.com/demos/

I usually read review content, maybe watch a YouTube video of someone playing the game if I want to see gameplay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KePY3IfxqOQ

[–] TyrianMollusk@lemm.ee 1 points 3 days ago

I've seen many devs cite the refund window as why they don't need to bother maintaining a demo. They're wrong about not needing a proper demo, but people definitely do treat the refund window as a demo phase, not merely a technical test.

[–] who@feddit.org 18 points 3 days ago (4 children)

IMHO, two hours is not nearly enough to get a feel for a game. At least, not for the sorts of games I tend to play. I spend longer than that just working through initial technical issues, configuration, and (in games that have one) the character generator.

I have to conclude that Steam's return window is either intended to be just enough to see if you can get it running, or as much as Valve could talk publishers into tolerating.

[–] shneancy@lemmy.world 19 points 3 days ago

imo the 2h refund window is not so you can judge if you'll like the game, it's so you can judge if you can tolerate it long enough to form an informed opinion

there's been a few games i played under 2h of and thought to myself "this is terrible, i'm not having fun and i actively dislike playing this", Steam's no questions asked refund was a cure for regret i'd have felt if i had to see that game in my library forever. Games that i know take much longer to judge i borrow from a friend who's into fitness and a girl, that's what saved me from buying Starfield or Avowed

[–] dumblederp@aussie.zone 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I got stuck with COD6 because of that shit. It's a boring game and it wasn't cheap.

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 3 points 3 days ago

Dragon's Dogma 2 for me.

[–] Katana314@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago

Two hours is the length of some high-budget media; eg, movies and plays.

I know that some games are slow-burn, but that’s something people have to weigh themselves. Ideally, you’d enjoy the slow burn itself. When I tried to “force myself through to the Good Part of Nier Automata”, I ended up hating the whole thing.

[–] JakobFel@retrolemmy.com 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I love Steam but I've always felt like the refund policy was a bit of a joke. I feel like the time limit should be flexible, being a bit longer for games that have long tutorials or a bunch of intro cutscenes.

[–] zipzoopaboop@lemmynsfw.com 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Alternatively you can have Sonys policy of did you boot it? Yes? Fuck you

[–] JakobFel@retrolemmy.com 1 points 2 days ago

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I know it can be worse. I just think it could also be better.

[–] Simulation6@sopuli.xyz 2 points 3 days ago

I will check out utube videos on the game before buying, if the game is over a certain price and a complex game. This will spoil some things, but it is usually not too bad.

[–] BULAJI@lemm.ee 1 points 3 days ago (2 children)

So, do you think two hours is too short?

[–] teft@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

It can be for some games. For others it’s too long.

[–] BULAJI@lemm.ee -5 points 3 days ago

Therefore, there is no perfect solution. Before Trump imposes additional tariffs on Steam, the best way is to maintain the status quo.

[–] TyrianMollusk@lemm.ee 0 points 3 days ago

It's too short for most games I play, because they backload their interest and gameplay excessively. The first two hours are generally the worst example of the actual game. Frustrates me that devs don't have the sense to make a demo that showcases the game instead of either nothing or just the beginning, but if a dev does the beginning and lets you carry your save into the full game, you can use the demo as intro and then buy with two more hours to put it through its paces (or already know you won't need to refund). Still not a smart way to sell your game when the early game is worse and a more focused demo would more effectively and efficiently engage potential players who don't want to sink time into every demo, but it's a compromise solution for people who will spend time with the demo and not wander away without buying into the game if they had a good time.

Also, anything with a character creator or other such lengthy setup to get playing just doesn't work with only two hours of running time as the window.

[–] bamboo@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I haven't heard of the game but see that it's going for $27. For me at least, buying a $27 game, I'd expect 10 hours minimum of enjoyable gameplay, which throws the free refund out the window if it would deliver.

It could be possible that they wanted to increase their game length to justify the price and stretched things if the first 80 minutes were tedious and slow. I'm sure there's some consideration to front load the enjoyment into the first few hours, with or without the refund, but I would assume lesser priced games would focus on that and not one going for this price.

[–] 3dmvr@lemm.ee 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

gotta avoid sunk cost, I used to buy 30$ games and say if I got 10 hours its worth it when I didnt enjoy the game and wouldve been better off spending my time (which is always more valuable than the amountt of money lost on a game 20-70$) elsewhere

[–] bamboo@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 3 days ago

Right yeah enjoyable entertainment is my requirement, why pay for something and waste my time if I'm not having fun