It's almost like teens see something like a genocide being committed, think it's wrong and say something about it.
this post was submitted on 15 Nov 2023
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Yeah I don’t think teens are particularly pro-Palestine or anti-Israel.
Teens throughout history have just been anti-war and anti-killing-children.
Tiktok also didn’t censor the major protests in France like Facebook and Twitter did at the time. i hav downloaded some videos with Tiktok video downloader but after that i have deleted all the data.
A broken tiktok is right twice a day...
Almost like when you take religion out of the picture it's one country committing genocide against another which is never okay for any reason. Israel can scream "but muh anti-semitism" all they want but it's a scapegoat. Ignore Jewish/Muslim backgrounds and look at what's really going on. It's nothing but a disgusting land grab and genocide that's been going on since WW2.
The world would 100% be a better place without Israel, and that's nothing to do with their religion. The country itself is evil and corrupt. They are bigoted and hypocritical. Israel deserves no sympathy or support. Out of all the bullshit I've seen happen in the middle east the past few decades, Israel is definitely the most abhorrent and repulsive source of conflict.
I'm convinced this whole tiktok is manipulating the algorithm thing is actually US propaganda.
Here's how you actually "manipulate the algorithm."
1: take up residency in the comments, and at the same time start a few basic accts that don't say anything too controversial (day in the life kinda stuff, thirst traps, etc). Establish a basic presence
2: once you amass a following, you start with pretty basic stuff lots of young people agree with - housing/healthcare reform, work reform, etc
3: an important part a lot of people miss - have your own team troll your comments. Stir up shit. The goal is to get people riled up, not move the needle in any specific direction
4: throw out something big (it's been confirmed that Russia is behind distribution on TikTok of OBL's "Letter to America" recently). Fight on both sides, tagging in as much of the greater sphere of commenters as you can.
That's it. That's all anyone's doing. Just do this over and over and you eventually drive people crazy.
They did the exact same thing in 2016, they did it in 2020 with BLM, they did it with Ukraine. It's nothing new
The amount of pro Palestinian support is overwhelming everywhere. Only newspapers and Reddit bots and paid shills are still spreading IDF propaganda. The rest of the world sees israel for the Nazi's they are.
I think the Israeli government is authoritarian, and their scorched earth tactics against Palestinians are war crimes, but you're not doing the cause any favors by invoking the Nazis. Criticize their actual behavior.
They turned Gaza into a concentration camp.
As Jews, they should absolutely know better.
In a context where we have the lies about the hospitals having tunnels under them, that 40 non-existent babies were beheaded and where some key facts about Oct 7 have somewhat unravelled, how far would you even bother policing the words of people wishing for a liberated Palestinian?
The Israelis and their supporters are also notorious liars and frequently try to claim that Muslims or brown people were responsible for the Holocaust in Europe.
They've bombed civilians before and the intelligence they send tend to be garbage according to EU after they looked through the reams of documents the Israelis sent them. As an occupier, Israel behaves like a country at war all the time, they lie, kill and cheat perpetually.
The problem is their behavior and rhetoric towards Palestine resembles a sentiment shared by the OG Nazis
The problem is when you mention Nazis to Jews, the first things they'll think of are Zyklon B, Babi Yar, the piles of children's shoes at Auschwitz, Mengele, that sort of thing.
And while what's going on in Israel is terrible, it's not Mengele terrible, Babi Yar terrible, or Treblinka terrible. So they write you off as just another antisemite, rather than listening to your point.
IMO there are big risks consuming news & opinion from any single source.
Whether it's the CCP manipulating the TikTok algorithm, Russia buying ad space on Facebook, or American conglomerates pushing narratives on western mainstream media, there will be implicit biases everywhere.
The only real answer is to get news from multiple sources with diverging perspectives, try to find where facts overlap, challenge your own implicit biases, and form a perspective in line w/ your values.
Seeing America blame TikTok for pushing propaganda is the pot calling the kettle black -- and honestly more of a distraction than anything else.
The real important issue is that people are dying, and the existing power structures are doing jack shit to stop it.
I'm pro-human beings and opposed to killing and maiming people who are trying to enjoy their life.
Yet we're not seeing calls for Hamas to step down and let innocent Palestinians live in some version of peace that can never be known under Islamic jihad....
Which I find very weird. The lack of conversation surrounding the admitted goals of the leaders of the Palestinian people is something that needs to be part of any conversation.
Because they're not going to do that. You can't call them terrorists and expect logical reasonable action or reaction.
The Palestinian people by in large did not vote Hamas in, over 50% of the people in Gaza were not alive during the last election.
Because they're not going to do that. You can't call them terrorists and expect logical reasonable action or reaction.
So we shouldn’t call them terrorists and hope they stop killing people? I’m sorry that doesn’t make any sense. Israel isn’t about to stop their war on Hamas, yet it doesn’t stop the world criticising them.
The Palestinian people by and large did not vote Hamas in, over 50% of the people in Gaza were not alive during the last election.
While technically true, almost 70% of Gazans support armed attacks on Israeli civilians.](https://pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll%2089%20English%20Full%20Text%20September%202023.pdf) I know it doesn’t fit the oppressor/oppressed narrative, but the vast majority of people in Gaza support what Hamas is doing. If elections were held today, according to that same poll, they would vote Hamas back in.
It might be a surprise to Americans that many people think that Israelis are evil bastards.
Algorithm probably plays a sizeable part in that, but as an older gen Z fella I have become indifferent to both countries of this conflict. Both Israel and Palestine just race with each other who can check the most boxes in the Geneva Convention rules list. Just leave those 2 to sort this mess out for themselves, It's not like we get a Holy Site bonus effect by owning Jerusalem.
Or just put a stop on this, but this is a naive thinking.
That’s pretty reductive on the Palestinian side no?
Considering more than half the populous wasn’t even born when Hamas took power.
To be fair to them, it's not as though the Israel Palestine conflict is black and white. It is pretty well known to be one of the most complex conflicts in human history.
Just about any statement that isn't very well researched and laboriously constructed is like 95% likely to be reductive to some and offensive to others.
I'm sure someone reads this post as reductive, and I am only tangentially referring to the conflict.
Edit: beyond this comment we see people continuing to try to distill a multigenerational war down to a paragraph. Brilliant. Y'all should start writing history books since y'all have such a firm grasp on it all!
It is pretty well known to be one of the most complex conflicts in human history.
It’s really not. It’s a land grab by a colonist ethno-state that drummed up some bullshit about that land being their destiny when they really came from what is now known as Iraq (and honestly who cares where). They intentionally make the issue “complicated” by putting ethnicity at its center, making even valid criticisms of this colonization punishable as a hate crime. But in the end, it’s not confusing. It’s just a land-grab wrapped in an ethnic/religious skin sort of like a Trojan horse.
I think some citation is necessary for the assertion that the Jewish people were not historically from the Levant region, and have no ancestoral "claims" in Jerusalem and the surrounding territory. I would love to see some anthropology studies or papers on the bronze age Israelites being proto-Asyrian or Persian and not one of the Canaanite tribes.
I'd also like to point out that basically every war ever has been and will probably be a land grab, wrapped up in some rationalized or causative skin. That stretch of land in particular has been conquered over and over again throughout human history, and the inhabitants forcibly immigrated and emigrated during many of these changes of power. Mesopotamia has been birthing empires since humans discovered it and it became a cradle of human civilization.
By your logic, they should share the land. That would also be an acceptable solution as well. Probably better, actually.
How do you feel about that? I’d love it if they could coexist peacefully, wouldn’t you?
I think people's issue is that you (the west) is funding one side of it.
I'm pretty isolationist too though. Pull the funding to both sides. Let them figure it out themselves (Israel will probably not exist in the end of this scenario).
Israel is at the front of the war on the west, from Syria to Lebanon and Iran. It's in the west's interest that they exist and be strong to be a force in the middle east and defend the west from falling to jihadist rule.
The US doesn't have any strategic benefit in propping up Israel other than doing so being weirdly important to white voters.
How does the US not have any strategic interest in propping up Israel? This is insane. Israel is the biggest strategic ally of the US in the middle east, do you not know anything about the issue? They protect and fund Israel more than anyone in the world.
Yeah, the US is the only thing keeping Israel in business. They're useful to keep an eye on Iran, because we don't like Iran, because...?
Saudis need our weapons, and Qatar likes the money we spend to keep our increasing number of bases there. But these are purely transactional relationships that we can have with anyone.
I think Kuwait are still fans of the US.
Other than that, everyone hates us because we protect Israel, and they hate Israel. Why don't we just join the club, and pick up an entire region of strategic allies instead of "Israel at all costs"?
I don't think an algorithm is responsible for the fact that most sane people are generally against genocide. People being pro-Palestine in this specific situation is a humanitarian response and should not be causing any amount of concern because it is the morally correct position here.
HOWEVER, the fact that we just witnessed the fucking letter to america go viral on tiktok, wherein a soul crushing amount of people publicly stated they agree with a fucking jihadist manifesto, is cause for a massive amount of concern. Tiktok definitely needs to face consequences for letting that happen. We also can't excuse the audience for that type of behaviour. Whether it came from a deliberate propaganda campaign, or a sketchy algorithm, or just mass stupidity, audience members need to be better. If you read the letter to america and you think bin laden was right, you're a moron, and you're contributing to the problem.
I think you should pay less attention to mainstream media which propped that issue up disproportionately. It wasn't as big of a deal as many made it out to be.
But regardless of that, I don't think one should be concerned about opinions of people and I certainly don't think it is an issue at all if young people hate the US. It has done some of the most fucked up things in the world since the start of the last century to say the least. This may be expressed in stupid ways like sympathising for Bin Laden, but the broader sentiment of hate towards the US isn't wrong.
I wouldn’t trust TikTok