this post was submitted on 04 Sep 2025

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Linux phones are more important now than ever. (feddit.org)

submitted 1 day ago* (last edited 1 hour ago) by Ulrich@feddit.org to c/linux@lemmy.ml

375 comments fedilink hide all child comments

E: apparently it needs to be said that I am not suggesting you switch to Linux on your phone today; just that development needs to accelerate. Please don't be one of the 34 people that replied to tell me Linux is not ready.

Android has always been a fairly open platform, especially if you were deliberate about getting it that way, but we've seen in recent months an extremely rapid devolution of the Android ecosystem:

The closing of development of an increasing number of components in AOSP.
Samsung, Xiaomi and OnePlus have removed the option of bootloader unlocking on all of their devices. I suspect Google is not far behind.
Google implementing Play Integrity API and encouraging developers to implement it. Notably the EU's own identity verification wallet requires this, in stark contrast to their own laws and policies, despite the protest of hundreds on Github.
And finally, the mandatory implementation of developer verification across Android systems. Yes, if you're running a 3rd-party OS like GOS you won't be directly affected by this, but it will impact 99.9% of devices, and I foresee many open source developers just opting out of developing apps for Android entirely as a result. We've already seen SyncThing simply discontinue development for this reason, citing issues with Google Play Store. They've also repeatedly denied updates for NextCloud with no explanation, only restoring it after mass outcry. And we've already seen Google targeting any software intended to circumvent ads, labeling them in the system as "dangerous" and "untrusted". This will most certainly carry into their new "verification" system.

Google once competed with Apple for customers. But in a world where Google walks away from the biggest antitrust trial since 1998 with yet another slap on the wrist, competition is dead, and Google is taking notes from Apple about what they can legally get away with.

Android as we know it is dead. And/or will be dead very soon. We need an open replacement.

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[–] mr_right@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (1 children)

indeed, android has been a shit show for the last couple of months and its not looking good.

i was thinking that this will make rooting and by extension custom ROMs prevalent again which hopefully will take us back to the golden age of android modding, but be careful of what you wish for.

I DON'T WANNA USE STOCK ANDROID. DON'T WANNA DON'T WANNA DON'T WANNA DON'T WANNA DON'T WANNA DON'T WANNA

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[–] kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 3 hours ago (2 children)

Ill address your issues with Android and then ill give my issues with mobile Linux:

The closing of development of an increasing number of components in AOSP.

Yeah this is bad but not even devastating for custom roms like GOS or LineageOS

Samsung, Xiaomi and OnePlus have removed the option of bootloader unlocking on all of their devices. I suspect Google is not far behind.

I highly doubt Google would lock the bootloader, they still make the most friendly devices for custom roms (yes even after all they have done). Also Samsung hasnt acturally allowed custom roms for a while now while Xiaomi doesn't either.

Google implementing Play Integrity API and encouraging developers to implement it. Notably the EU's own identity verification wallet requires this, in stark contrast to their own laws and policies, despite the protest of hundreds on Github.

Even if a developer used the Play Integrity API it doesn't mean custom roms or other operating systems like GOS arent supported. I use GOS and have had no issues with play integrity, there are no incentives to require a certified Android device.

And finally, the mandatory implementation of developer verification across Android systems. Yes, if you're running a 3rd-party OS like GOS you won't be directly affected by this, but it will impact 99.9% of devices, and I foresee many open source developers just opting out of developing apps for Android entirely as a result.

Sideloading isnt going anywhere and tbh I doubt this will be strongly enforced, Google will always have the threat of root resurfacing. You dont even need root to get rid of Google Play services and install MicroG.

Conclusion

Android as we know it is dead. And/or will be dead very soon. We need an open replacement.

That seems highly unlikely, even with everything Google has done the fact is AOSP is the only mature open source mobile project.

Now ill get to my issues with mobile Linux:

Hardware

As of now there is no good hardware and no plans by any company to make good hardware in the future.

Mobile Linux interfaces are at least a decade behind Android, clunky and bearly usable. Btw yes I have tried them recently, they suck. For the most part mobile Linux interfaces are made by developers who would never acturally daily drive them.

Software support

Not a lot of Linux software supports arm and those that do either don't work with touchscreens or have them as an afterthought.

The software that does work generals isnt designed with small screens in mind and are very often scaled down desktop apps

Basic functionality

Basic functionality is absolutely not there on Linux phones, things like calling and texing either require commands or outright dont work at all. For example according to the Postmarketos Wiki in order to change volume on a Pixel 3a during a call you need to manually change it with commands. Genuenly what the fuck, if im on an important call the other person isnt going to wait several hours for me to fiddle with the terminal. If I need to send a text now im not waiting several hours until it works.

Security

Mobile Linux has all the security issues as Linux with no mitigations, except phones contain a lot more personal information and are more likley to be a target for data extraction.

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[–] Tydragon@feddit.it 20 points 10 hours ago (3 children)

Check out postmarketOS, a real Linux distro for phones with a 10-year life cycle goal and mainline kernel support. It’s not daily-driver ready for everyone, but it frees you from Google and OEM lockdowns. If we want an open mobile future, this is the project worth supporting.

[–] StupidBrotherInLaw@lemmy.world 7 points 9 hours ago

This looks great. If we collectively threw some funding behind a few worthy projects, even at 1-10€ per person, it could really accelerate development.

[–] ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online 2 points 10 hours ago

Sounds good. I wish there was something for samsung s23s.

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[–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 10 points 10 hours ago

I’m about a tech zero skill but I am at Lemmy for THIS news. Thank you for resisting complete shitification hegemony. Resist!

[–] mariusafa@lemmy.sdf.org 12 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

I just hope that this time we go Free Software and not committing the mistake of going Open Source for a 3rd time (BSD/UNIX AT&T; Android/Google). Unless we want to fall with the same stone yet once more.

Android going Open Source allowed Google to close Android once it got mature. It's a Trojan Horse, yet people still go Open Source and then complain when some company closes their source.

[–] smiletolerantly@awful.systems 3 points 9 hours ago (2 children)

How exactly does Free, non-open-source software prevent that?

[–] bufalo1973@europe.pub 3 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Because the license allows the closing of the code whenever a coder wants. BSD has that problem. It gives so much freedom that it can go against freedom itself. Microsoft took Kerberos (BSD), forked it and extended it. The MS fork gained ground against the BSD one and MS closed the source when its fork was the most used, pushing out the original BSD version.

[–] AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 1 points 4 hours ago

I get where this argument is coming from, but I don't think there are meaningful differences in the success of gpl or other copyleft licenses, vs permissive ones (except maybe cases where someone was willing and able to enforce the gpl in court). Companies are no less capable of doing EEE with copyleft. There are also plenty of permissively licensed software projects that have gained a lot of popularity, just like some gpl ones have.

The difference in traction between Linux and BSD probably has more to do with the same kinds of forces that allowed Android to succeed and then crowd Windows phones out of the market.

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[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 4 points 10 hours ago

Though we can't use the android name and logo, the software that was open so far is still open for use.

Take that part and continue building from there

[–] jjlinux@lemmy.zip 8 points 10 hours ago

By the way, outside of our brawl down below, I do agree with you 100% that having a fully functional and modern Linux phone would be an amazing thing to have.

[–] Regrettable_incident@lemmy.world 15 points 13 hours ago

I'll switch away from Android when there's a good alternative, but I'm not very technical and need something with a nice GUI and an easy installation process. Hopefully Linux will offer something like that someday, but I don't think it's there yet.

[–] AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 0 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

While I support the continued progress of real Linux phones, have a Pinephone, and even wasted all of yesterday trying to make a working build of Armbian for retro handheld I have; I think it's more practical to focus on open Android distributions, getting more phones out that can support multi os's and buying those, and growing a robust app market system that can compete with Google Play.

F-Droid is almost there, but being open-source doesn't mean something has to be free of charge. F-Droid should be extended, or possibly an additional app manager be established, that still promotes software freedom and privacy, but allows for devs to charge for their apps as well.

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[–] Busyvar@jlai.lu 14 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Currently i am looking for a Jolla phone https://commerce.jolla.com/products/jolla-community-phone

They are private company but seems to be very user friendly and carefull with their dev community. What do you think about them folks?

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[–] viewports@lemmy.ml 4 points 10 hours ago

It would be cool to see people move beyond the standard smartphone and into some sort of hotspot and linux based palmtop or umpc like setup

I had something like that in the early 2000s with a nokia n800 and it worked well enough I'm sure it would be even better now

[–] glitching@lemmy.ml 26 points 16 hours ago (11 children)

the vast majority of commenters here either have no direct experience with a Linux phone or have seen some shallow youtube "review" of a dude swiping the same two screens left/right and extrapolate a buncha shit that has no contact with reality.

presently, and in the foreseeable future, linux phones aren't an android alternative, they are just linux on the phone, i.e. they allow you to do linux shit on a handheld device.

like, the bleeding edge version of any variant (plasma mobile, gnome, phosh) isn't even close to an Android phone from like 2015, let alone a modern one.

and that's before we touch on the pillars of mobile tech like fluidity, battery efficiency, reliability, etc., none of those things are even in a remotely passable state, not to mention - using the thing to make calls. you are better off forgetting about the camera, as well.

and the reason is simple, not only is there a gargantuan discrepancy between evil corp's resources and the predominantly unpaid enthusiasts, each dev team's reimplementing shit that's already solved on another platform. apple doesn't have to do that. google as well.

then there's the idea that the javascript-backed Gnome - that has issues running fluidly on super-capable hardware - is the basis on a low-power device on which the linux mobile phone experience is built. reinventing solved shit, but in a stupid way - THREE FINGER swipe on a phone, really?

although there's a solid app base, the apps that are supposedly mobile friendly are few and far between, most are just downright unusable on a vertical screen and dog help you if launch an electron app. firefox, even with pmOS patches (useless without) is tiresome to use. you can forget about dating, ubering, banking, or even just using a messenger everybody else does.

if you're squeamish about flashing custom recoveries and ROMs, the e.g. pmOS install process is way, way, way more involved and failure prone. if you go with ubuntu touch or mobian, even more so.

finally, if you're talking about a device that you've grown accustomed to to the extent that you're using it subconsciously, swiping and multitasking and such whilst walking and dodging other pedestrians - no such thing exists over here.

I'm just tying this up because I keep reading about "switching", people are either delusional or misinformed, there's nothing (yet) to switch to.

get a couple of $50 ex-flaghips to play with, flash lineageOS on one and pmOS on the other and that should hold you over for a coupla years.

[–] Ulrich@feddit.org 8 points 12 hours ago (5 children)

apparently it needs to be said that I am not suggesting you switch to Linux on your phone today; just that development needs to accelerate.

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[–] Piece_Maker@feddit.uk 3 points 10 hours ago (3 children)

if you're squeamish about flashing custom recoveries and ROMs, the e.g. pmOS install process is way, way, way more involved and failure prone. if you go with ubuntu touch or mobian, even more so.

What?? PmOS and Ubuntu Touch both have very easy, foolproof installers. No idea about Mobian to be fair.

I've been using only Linux-based mobile OS's since my first smartphone, and while you're right for a lot of the new breed made for the Pinephone and Librem, Sailfish OS and Ubuntu Touch are both perfectly useable for lots of people. Both have a decent app ecosystem and both support running Android apps to fill in the gaps (I've used both, the proprietary Jolla one is about as good as it gets and is practically seamless for like 99% of Android apps).

Of course there's going to be people who will respond to me to say they can't possibly switch because of that one app that they and 5 other people in the world use, as though they're in any way relevant to what I've said. Just the same as when I post about people switching to Linux on the desktop and there's always that one Fusion 360 user who thinks everyone in the world also uses Fusion and so Linux can't possibly ever work for anyone.

[–] Hawk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 5 hours ago

This seems less of a problem in the US, but a lot of stuff here is done with some apps that won't run on these distributions.

Banks have created identity provides which now the government also uses, and they're locked down to Android and iOS. Without these, making payments or do other stuff you need your identity for gets hard. And there are used by hundreds of thousands of people daily.

If they can run, I'd switch over instantly, but now I'm pretty much stuck.

[–] Crozekiel@lemmy.zip 3 points 9 hours ago

To be fair, Fusion 360 is pretty good... I hate to love it, to miss it. I can't wrap my head around the work flow in FreeCAD.

But more often I am shocked by people saying they have to stay on windows because of Office... Like, the fuck? MS doesn't even want you to have that installed on your computer anymore and is pushing all web based, but that is going to keep you on Windows?? Nothing there is particularly hungry, just put it in a VM if you absolutely can't get by with one of the several great alternatives.

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