this post was submitted on 04 Sep 2025

823 points (98.4% liked)

Linux

57917 readers

934 users here now

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

Rules

Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.
No misinformation
No NSFW content
No hate speech, bigotry, etc

Related Communities

Community icon by Alpár-Etele Méder, licensed under CC BY 3.0

founded 6 years ago

MODERATORS

AgreeableLandscape@lemmy.ml

nooter692@lemmy.ml

MarcellusDrum@lemmy.ml

cypherpunks@lemmy.ml

cyclohexane@lemmy.ml

d3Xt3r@lemmy.nz

823

Linux phones are more important now than ever. (feddit.org)

submitted 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) by Ulrich@feddit.org to c/linux@lemmy.ml

349 comments fedilink hide all child comments

E: apparently it needs to be said that I am not suggesting you switch to Linux on your phone today; just that development needs to accelerate.

Android has always been a fairly open platform, especially if you were deliberate about getting it that way, but we've seen in recent months an extremely rapid devolution of the Android ecosystem:

The closing of development of an increasing number of components in AOSP.
Samsung, Xiaomi and OnePlus have removed the option of bootloader unlocking on all of their devices. I suspect Google is not far behind.
Google implementing Play Integrity API and encouraging developers to implement it. Notably the EU's own identity verification wallet requires this, in stark contrast to their own laws and policies, despite the protest of hundreds on Github.
And finally, the mandatory implementation of developer verification across Android systems. Yes, if you're running a 3rd-party OS like GOS you won't be directly affected by this, but it will impact 99.9% of devices, and I foresee many open source developers just opting out of developing apps for Android entirely as a result. We've already seen SyncThing simply discontinue development for this reason, citing issues with Google Play Store. They've also repeatedly denied updates for NextCloud with no explanation, only restoring it after mass outcry. And we've already seen Google targeting any software intended to circumvent ads, labeling them in the system as "dangerous" and "untrusted". This will most certainly carry into their new "verification" system.

Google once competed with Apple for customers. But in a world where Google walks away from the biggest antitrust trial since 1998 with yet another slap on the wrist, competition is dead, and Google is taking notes from Apple about what they can legally get away with.

Android as we know it is dead. And/or will be dead very soon. We need an open replacement.

top 50 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] ICastFist@programming.dev 4 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

At this point, the "best" solution might be buying one of those SBC (single board computers) that also has an android image, like orangePi or ODroid and "build" the rest of the phone on top of it. Might be the only way people can get a screen smaller than 6" as well. I say Android in this case because it has access to all the apps without needing emulation or Waydroid

OOOOORRRRR, just buy an used older phone that you know is easy to unlock and install a custom rom. Did that with a motorola G6, am happy with lineage. Not the fastest phone by a long shot, especially as newer versions of many apps just introduce more bloat because fuck you, but perfectly usable for messaging and video watching. Also has a headphone jack!

[–] Ulrich@feddit.org 2 points 38 minutes ago

I mean Android itself is the main problem here...

[–] kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 34 minutes ago

Ill address your issues with Android and then ill give my issues with mobile Linux:

The closing of development of an increasing number of components in AOSP.

Yeah this is bad but not even devastating for custom roms like GOS or LineageOS

Samsung, Xiaomi and OnePlus have removed the option of bootloader unlocking on all of their devices. I suspect Google is not far behind.

I highly doubt Google would lock the bootloader, they still make the most friendly devices for custom roms (yes even after all they have done). Also Samsung hasnt acturally allowed custom roms for a while now while Xiaomi doesn't either.

Google implementing Play Integrity API and encouraging developers to implement it. Notably the EU's own identity verification wallet requires this, in stark contrast to their own laws and policies, despite the protest of hundreds on Github.

Even if a developer used the Play Integrity API it doesn't mean custom roms or other operating systems like GOS arent supported. I use GOS and have had no issues with play integrity, there are no incentives to require a certified Android device.

And finally, the mandatory implementation of developer verification across Android systems. Yes, if you're running a 3rd-party OS like GOS you won't be directly affected by this, but it will impact 99.9% of devices, and I foresee many open source developers just opting out of developing apps for Android entirely as a result.

Sideloading isnt going anywhere and tbh I doubt this will be strongly enforced, Google will always have the threat of root resurfacing. You dont even need root to get rid of Google Play services and install MicroG.

Conclusion

Android as we know it is dead. And/or will be dead very soon. We need an open replacement.

That seems highly unlikely, even with everything Google has done the fact is AOSP is the only mature open source mobile project.

Now ill get to my issues with mobile Linux:

Hardware

As of now there is no good hardware and no plans by any company to make good hardware in the future.

Mobile Linux interfaces are at least a decade behind Android, clunky and bearly usable. Btw yes I have tried them recently, they suck. For the most part mobile Linux interfaces are made by developers who would never acturally daily drive them.

Software support

Not a lot of Linux software supports arm and those that do either don't work with touchscreens or have them as an afterthought.

The software that does work generals isnt designed with small screens in mind and are very often scaled down desktop apps

Basic functionality

Basic functionality is absolutely not there on Linux phones, things like calling and texing either require commands or outright dont work at all. For example according to the Postmarketos Wiki in order to change volume on a Pixel 3a during a call you need to manually change it with commands. Genuenly what the fuck, if im on an important call the other person isnt going to wait several hours for me to fiddle with the terminal. If I need to send a text now im not waiting several hours until it works.

Security

Mobile Linux has all the security issues as Linux with no mitigations, except phones contain a lot more personal information and are more likley to be a target for data extraction.

[–] bonus_crab@lemmy.world 4 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Is identity verification for publishing android apps that bad? Both the app store and play store already have your billing information since you have to pay to publish an app anyway right?

[–] Ulrich@feddit.org 5 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Is identity verification for publishing android apps that bad?

What does "that bad" mean? It gives Google ultimate control over what apps you can install on "your" phone. Essentially bringing it on PAR with Apple.

Both the app store and play store already have your billing information since you have to pay to publish an app anyway right?

There are (currently) ways to distribute apps outside of Play Store on Android. So no.

[–] strung6387@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 hour ago (3 children)

It gives Google ultimate control over what apps you can install on “your” phone.

Only if you're using Android, though. It makes sense to me that Google would want publishers of Android apps to be verified, since Google would face backlash if any attacker could publish Android apps anonymously.

[–] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 2 points 30 minutes ago* (last edited 26 minutes ago)

since Google would face backlash if any attacker could publish Android apps anonymously.

This is about installing APKs, not apps downloaded from the Play Store. Which, by the way, also have no quality control. Publish a YouTube downloader and it gets taken down in 3 seconds. Make an app to steal people's data, perhaps even steal their money? Literally not an issue.

Google doesn't want you to be able to install a secure open source YouTube client that can ignore ads, or modified apps that can bypass ads they serve that 3rd party app developers put in. They do not give a fuck about attackers getting all your shit. They also don't want you using NextCloud if you could be using Google Drive - so rest assured, Nextcloud fuckery will now continue on APKs too, not just the Play Store verifications.

In all of this, Apple is in some ways better than what Google wants to do - only because Apple makes money off all devices that run iOS. So they don't really care if you use something like NextCloud instead of iCloud - they already made money off you, anything else is a bonus. Of course they do still want to keep you paying for shit and they don't want to be sued by Google for allowing ad-free youtube apps, so they're only marginally better.

[–] ICastFist@programming.dev 2 points 55 minutes ago

Google has continuously faced bad press for having a nearly non-existent quality control for their play store. Apps loaded with malware, or updated to become malware, are super common. The majority will attempt to inject ads every-fucking-where, like press back, SURPRISE AD! Press home, AD TIME! Close the ad, HERE'S AD 2 ELECTRIC BOOGALOO!

[–] Ulrich@feddit.org 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

Only if you're using Android

...Yeah? That was my point. It's time to move away from Android.

Google would face backlash if any attacker could publish Android apps anonymously.

I don't think you understand. This is the way it's always been, since the beginning of Android.

It may be what Google wants; as a user it is absolutely not what I want. It is not any of Google's business what I install on my device. If they want to provide it as a service and give users the option to opt out of it, I'm totally fine with that. As is, it sure looks like they just want more control, the same way Apple has. I'd be very unsurprised to see Google following in their footsteps in short order and requiring 27% of their income in order to be "verified", or blocking apps that compete with them, or making it so God Damn frustrating that developers just quit, as they have on the Play Store.

[–] TheLazyNerd@europe.pub 3 points 2 hours ago (2 children)

I just bought the Fairphone 6 with /e/os. I am pleasantly surprised with how many apps work just fine.

[–] Tortellinius@lemmy.world 1 points 23 minutes ago

What's e/os?

[–] Ulrich@feddit.org 1 points 2 hours ago

The point of this post is that there are worrying trends that threaten the entirety of the Android ecosystem. Not necessarily today, but in the near future.

[–] mr_right@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

indeed, android has been a shit show for the last couple of months and its not looking good.

i was thinking that this will make rooting and by extension custom ROMs prevalent again which hopefully will take us back to the golden age of android modding, but be careful of what you wish for.

I DON'T WANNA USE STOCK ANDROID. DON'T WANNA DON'T WANNA DON'T WANNA DON'T WANNA DON'T WANNA DON'T WANNA

[–] AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 0 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

While I support the continued progress of real Linux phones, have a Pinephone, and even wasted all of yesterday trying to make a working build of Armbian for retro handheld I have; I think it's more practical to focus on open Android distributions, getting more phones out that can support multi os's and buying those, and growing a robust app market system that can compete with Google Play.

F-Droid is almost there, but being open-source doesn't mean something has to be free of charge. F-Droid should be extended, or possibly an additional app manager be established, that still promotes software freedom and privacy, but allows for devs to charge for their apps as well.

[–] Ulrich@feddit.org 1 points 1 hour ago

I just laid out how the entire Android ecosystem as a whole is in jeopardy. That was the entire point of the post.

[–] Tydragon@feddit.it 17 points 7 hours ago (3 children)

Check out postmarketOS, a real Linux distro for phones with a 10-year life cycle goal and mainline kernel support. It’s not daily-driver ready for everyone, but it frees you from Google and OEM lockdowns. If we want an open mobile future, this is the project worth supporting.

[–] strung6387@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 hour ago

Thanks for the suggestion! I was about to ask what non-Android Linux options are available.

[–] StupidBrotherInLaw@lemmy.world 6 points 7 hours ago

This looks great. If we collectively threw some funding behind a few worthy projects, even at 1-10€ per person, it could really accelerate development.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] wowwoweowza@lemmy.world 10 points 7 hours ago

I’m about a tech zero skill but I am at Lemmy for THIS news. Thank you for resisting complete shitification hegemony. Resist!

[–] mariusafa@lemmy.sdf.org 10 points 8 hours ago (5 children)

I just hope that this time we go Free Software and not committing the mistake of going Open Source for a 3rd time (BSD/UNIX AT&T; Android/Google). Unless we want to fall with the same stone yet once more.

Android going Open Source allowed Google to close Android once it got mature. It's a Trojan Horse, yet people still go Open Source and then complain when some company closes their source.

load more comments (5 replies)

[–] jjlinux@lemmy.zip 7 points 8 hours ago

By the way, outside of our brawl down below, I do agree with you 100% that having a fully functional and modern Linux phone would be an amazing thing to have.

load more comments