reposting to see how much the lemmyverse has learned since the last time: https://lemmy.ml/post/7927508
the ultimate police state - 'security' is one of their top exports
Wait let me predict the various responses that will be found from the lemmy liberals
"If everyone voted blue[MAGA] there would only be a little genocide and human rights violations"
"SlAvA UkrANi" (showing support for nazis)
"but but but china/russia bad!"
"BoTh ThInGs"
“BoTh ThInGs”
did you mean "both sides"?
in case you're not already aware: american liberals use "both sides" as a talking point to prevent discussion of how democrats also engage in the same bullshit that the republicans do.
"BlueMAGA" is a false equivalence derived from horseshoe fallacy. The crazy fringe of Democrats aren't as numerous, nor as influential, nor as crazy, as MAGA.
If you have actual criticisms of Democrats, go ahead and make them, but constructing this "equal and opposite" both-sides trash is a thought terminating cliche.
BlueMAGA has nothing to do with horseshoe theory, horseshoe theory is the false idea that the far-left and far-right, ie communists and fascists, are more similar than different. BlueMAGA is about liberalism being closer to fascism than any kind of leftism, given bipartisan support for capitalism, imperialism, neocolonialism, and genocide abroad. It isn't "both sides bad," it's "the DNC and GOP are on the same side of capital."
No it isn't derived from horseshoe fallacy because the dems arent left. They're far right warhawks who openly support genocide. They have an "America first" mindset, believe in "American exceptionalism", are zionists to the marrow of their bones, believe in militarization, warfare, built concentration camps for migrants and have people chanting "blue no matter who". They are the exact same party in a different color with an even stupider mascot.
"bluemaga" is an observation that no, democrats are not the opposite of republicans.
they are fascist imperialists just like republicans. the difference is they are polite and charismatic.
the difference is they are polite and charismatic
Well, and less genocide and human rights abuse, as even the person I replied to could admit.
Daniel Democrat beats a man 49% to death with a lead pipe, then Robert Republican takes his turn and does the other 51%. The man is now a smear on the floor.
Daniel Democrat turns to the police and says "Why are you questioning me, the other guy did it more!"
Shut up, you're both going to prison.
i don't see anyone admitting to anything, just you being insistent. your country has been genociding and abusing human rights for decades under democrats and republicans pretty much equally. i can't think of a single recent us president that wasn't a war criminal.
can you?
i can’t think of a single recent us president that wasn’t a war criminal.
That doesn't make all war criminals equal. Two things can both be morally reprehensible and one still a clear advantage over the other.
i support the smol bean democratic US presidents war crimes
do you not listen to yourself or??
That doesn't make all feces equal. Two shits can be disgusting and one can still be clearly more tasty than the other
just wow
The name is a bit misleading, as they're not reactionaries who want to go back to an imaginary idealized past, but conservatives who want to conserve the past status quo. They're more like Blue Make A Keep Being Imperialist.
But their strategy is really "interesting". If they convince enough people that they're still a powerful empire, their empire will magically stay strong (bending reality to their will, idealism logic, jedi logic).
Now there's two kinds of people that they hate: people who powerfully fight back and therefore show the empire's weaknesses (russians and iranians), and people who notice the empire's material weakness and try to do something about it (fascists).
Both show the material reality that the empire is weak, so both (including their supporters) are considered traitors to the idealist imperialist cause. That's where all the trump = putin bullshit comes from.
Idealist magic supposedly only works if every imperial citizen (the other people have already been dehumanized and therefore don't count) believes in it, that's why radlibs become so angry at nonbelievers. "If only the nonbelievers would all believe, we could have genocided russia with our minds alone long ago", they think.
Then the question becomes, why don't they just murder the nonbelievers? They try, by trying to convince everyone that the nonbelievers are dumb and lesser and all sorts of things, but that just doesn't kill them irl.
they’re not reactionaries who want to go back to an imaginary idealized past
I go back and forth on this. I kind of think they actually are, but instead of wanting to return to a 1950s coke commercial, they want to return to the 90s and do the macarena forever at the end of history.
lol the Democrats and Republicans ARE the same. Their foreign policies are the exact same.
And I don't give one single fuck about domestic policies, all it does is say that Americans care more about their own comfort and will allow the killing and exploitation of poorer countries for that to happen.
The crazy fringe of Democrats aren’t as numerous, nor as influential, nor as crazy, as MAGA.
That's focusing on the decorum over all else. You don't think that the reputation of the US and the chaos is all Trump or Republicans... do you?
lol the Democrats and Republicans ARE the same. Their foreign policies are the exact same.
Just blatantly untrue, even the person I replied to could admit there would at least be less genocide and human rights abuse.
That’s focusing on the decorum over all else
Not at all, nice strawman though. Crazy and influential refers to political goals and political power
there would at least be less genocide and human rights abuse.
Please look at all the shit Obama did, including authorizing killing random civilians in neutral countries and destroying Libya.
Biden gave a green light for the extermination of Palestinians in Gaza.
To us in the global south the difference isn't that big beyond aesthetics. I don't feel reassured if a democrat is in office because we'll be hit hard with IMF extortion starving our children, forcing us to give our resources and do a regime change or an invasion if we refuse, and other bullshit like that whether there's a democrat there or not.
But for the sake of argument, let's pretend the democrats are substantially better abroad. Harris campaigned on having the most lethal army, democrats being the toughest on the border and continuing the genocide in Gaza. If they aren't willing to do anything better than that then they don't deserve anyone's votes.
I didn't say Democrats are good, I said they're better.
If they aren’t willing to do anything better than that then they don’t deserve anyone’s votes.
I dunno, I think if even a single life is saved by voting for a Democrat, that would have been worth it.
There are things America does, which is bad and both Democrats and Republicans are guilty of, and there are ways Republicans are much worse. American imperialism will not be undone in a single election, and refusing to partake in incremental progress (or at least harm reduction) is throwing away any impact you could have in the system. Well, not you, but there are marginalized groups interior to the United States which face more oppression under Trump than they ever would under Harris, and saying their lives and suffering don't matter because "America gonna America" is just cold blooded. It's a really basic trolley problem and I have problems with the people who think they're above pulling a lever because both tracks have bodies on them.
Yes America bad, and yes Democrats bad, but sometimes they're the best choice available.
It is not worth voting for Democrat because you are still giving into the system and enabling genocide and exploitation. The entire system has to be overthrown.
It's funny to see liberals constantly rely on VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO that they're just mad that Trump is (R) and not (D). You don't care about marginalized groups by the way, that is for sure.
Marginalized groups have been under attack for decades and nothing has changed but it getting faster. And a liberal argument is that they want them to be killed slowly, while thinking that others opposed to this system just want them killed faster and therefore are bigoted. But herein lies the issue, why do liberals want marginalized groups to be killed slowly and out of view, instead of tackling this real issue head-on?
Democrats are pro-ICE, they think it just needs to be reformed. They only truly got mad when 2 white people got killed. Governor Tim Walz thinks that the problem with ICE is they need to do it during the night and not disturb people. (Does that sound like someone opposed to targeting marginalized people????)
Under Obama, ICE ramped up a lot and there were a lot of drone strikes on innocent people under his rule. But it's all excused because he was "polite" about it, further cementing that Democrats/Liberals only care about looking righteous, not being that.
How about Kamala Harris? Who is a brutal prison cop that also had unconditional support for "Israel" and considered Iran to be the biggest threat. Who was making fun of Trump that he wasn't deporting ENOUGH people!??!? She was platforming on being even tougher on borders. The reason people want Kamala is because they want a girlboss as a war criminal, because it's sexist not to also let women order strikes on people in other countries, instead of just throwing and burning this system overall.
Or Gavin Newsom? Who personally attended and participated in destroying homeless people's camps? Who has complete support for "Israel", just like Tim Walz and Kamala Harris. Who is also pro-ICE. Gavin is a horrible person too but the "VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO" insist even Gavin Newsom. Why? Because anything to get a Democrat, even if it's Hitler. And guess what, that kind of thinking is just like MAGA and Republicans, who also vote Red no matter what. And the problem with "VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO" is that you'd even vote for Trump if he ran as a Democrat lmao.
Just so you know, it's incredibly selfish and self-centered to argue only for domestic policies because it's "as good as it gets" and "lesser of 2 evils". It's resigning from responsibility of enabling brutal genocide and exploitation as well as throwing the entire global south under the bus for your own well-being.
The people of Iran don't care if the bombs dropped on them have (D) or (R)... because a bomb is A FUCKING BOMB!!!!
