this post was submitted on 24 May 2026
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[–] phutatorius@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 hours ago

Permanently until next time.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 47 points 2 days ago (1 children)

It would be hilarious if Chinese companies were the ones that punctured the investment bubble around AI in America.

[–] orioler25@lemmy.world 10 points 2 days ago

Yes, almost like that's why there's a bubble despite the obvious disparity between both states' ability to maintain an adequate infrastructure for this technology. US companies are looting with the full expectation that the cost of the economic fallout will be shifted to taxpayers. They're getting as much value out of this before China inevitably becomes dominant even in the US sphere of influence as the US simply will never be able to compete after decades of neoliberal politics and the erosion of public works.

[–] razen@lemmy.world 16 points 2 days ago (8 children)

Are they eating the cost? How are they able to do it while others are unable to?

[–] Balinares@pawb.social 18 points 2 days ago (2 children)

They invented a hybrid attention design that drastically reduces the amount of memory needed for the KV cache at inference time. Like, dividing it by 10. And memory is a large part of the cost of inference.

[–] jaykrown@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago

This is a main part of the reason, yes. They actually innovated and did something that pushed the technology forward to be much more efficient, which we first saw with DeepSeek R1 for different reasons.

[–] razen@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

I see, I will look on some yt video who explain this in depth

[–] sketch@lemmy.pt 9 points 2 days ago

The American models are eating their cost big time, in return they get user data to train on and a massive reality distortion field that can theoretically be exploited later. It costs less for DeepSeek to eat their cost, and maybe the value of that user data is worth it now? Maybe there is some Chinese VC getting involved to try and boost DeepSeek with a little reality distortion field they can attempt to exploit later? I don't know, but all these seem plausible to me.

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[–] MalReynolds@slrpnk.net 166 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

The lower prices could be aimed at undercutting the competition.

Mobster voice: Sure would be a pity if the monetization potential of those 2 huge IPOs (3 if you count SpaceX with xAI deadweight rolled in) went boom when that's all that's holding your economy out of recession (depression depending on how they cook the books).

[–] Slotos@feddit.nl 83 points 3 days ago (7 children)

The way SpaceX IPO got crammed into index, it’s invulnerable to anything but an immediate incarceration of everybody involved.

Index funds will be required to buy the stocks at a listing price before market can decide how much they are worth exactly.

Afterwards, “economy in a recession” is synonymous to “free buffet” to those at the reins.

[–] Landless2029@lemmy.world 1 points 21 hours ago

Shit I didn't know about this. I wonder if there are any funds that won't buy into this crap.

[–] edible_funk@sh.itjust.works 63 points 3 days ago (13 children)

Yep this will be the fourth or fifth record breaking upward transfers of wealth I've lived through. I really don't want to live through another.

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[–] sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 29 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Yeah, the whole plan is to have every US citizen's 401k's autobuy into the SpaceX IPO.

Your retirement fund is Elon's exit liquidity.

Its a truly fantastic fraud.

Because... the Nasdaq... well a few weeks ago it changed its rules on the delay time between an IPO and it being part of the index, the index that everyone's 401k's buy into.

I guess you could say its going to be 'epic' when this all blows up.

See this is basically how the us economy works:

Poors roll over negative equity into their next car loan.

The ever diminishing 'middle class' basically does the same with homes, helocs, etc.

The owners roll over debt via corporate amalgamations.

But because the rich have a magical legal barrier of 'all the bad and dumb things i do are a legal fiction doing them, not me personally', well, the legal fiction gets what its due and/or evaporates when it can't pay what it owes... and the rich remain on top.

Yeehaw!

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[–] favoredponcho@lemmy.zip 19 points 2 days ago (1 children)

All that and it still won’t talk about the Tiananmen Square massacre

[–] andallthat@lemmy.world 11 points 2 days ago

but it will absolutely learn a lot about everyone who wanted to talk about it

[–] aceshigh@lemmy.world 74 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Prices are funny. My last job we were changing clients extra for doing a thing that didn’t cost us anything and was fast to do. How much we charged was completely arbitrary and depended on the partners mood. It’s all made up folks.

[–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 58 points 2 days ago (7 children)

Yeah, which is why the "if minimum wage increases, so will prices" aregument is BS. They were going to charge the highest price they thought they could either way, the difference is that they are forced to increase the amount that goes to the people they are trying to pay the least.

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[–] plz1@sh.itjust.works 18 points 2 days ago (1 children)

DeepSeek never said it was permanent in their pricing materials, the article writer did. They are just taking the current expiration date off an existing discount. It's absolutely a shot across the bow at Claude, OpenAI, et al., but the author was click-baiting, as is tradition.

[–] ammonium@lemmy.world 10 points 2 days ago (1 children)

No?

The deepseek-v4-pro model API pricing will be officially adjusted to 1/4 of the original price after the 75% discount promotion ends on 2026/05/31 15:59 UTC.

https://api-docs.deepseek.com/quick_start/pricing

[–] zqps@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 days ago

Matter of Interpretation. It's not a time-limited discount anymore so it's "permanent" in that sense, but there's no commitment to not again raise the price later.

[–] ayyy@sh.itjust.works 64 points 2 days ago (4 children)

“Permanently” lol it’s a subscription and the terms say they can change the price at any time. How is it legal for them to advertise with the word “permanent”?

[–] BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world 22 points 2 days ago (2 children)

lol it’s a subscription

It's actually API access price, and it's charged per input + output tokens. $0.87 per million tokens is damn cheap.

They probably have super cheap electricity and it's possible they use cheap Chinese Ai chips for inference.

[–] ragebutt@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 2 days ago

china is expanding energy tremendously to the point that the USA simply cannot compete. Even if data centers all get built tomorrow they will soon bottleneck because energy demands can’t be met in a timely manner. The median time to get a new power plant online is 5 years. Meanwhile china is investing heavily not only in expansion of their grid, but expansion into renewable energy. They’ve added 8x the power to their grid that the us did just in 2023 and if anything their pace has risen since then. Their renewable grid is 3x the size of the entire us grid

In terms of raw performance US firms were months ahead and that gap is shrinking. Dola-seed is ranked second behind opus by us firms with a gap of under 3% in benchmark performance

This performance gap closing and energy superiority is why ultimately DeepSeek v4 pro outperforms opus 4.6. Opus is the clear winner, but not by a very appreciable amount, and ranges from 11-26x more expensive. Chinas hardware isn’t more efficient but their energy superiority puts them way ahead; their cloudmatrix uses well over 100% more energy than nvidia g200 but their energy costs are sometimes as little as 1/8th American costs per kWh

The race to superiority here is ultimately does America substantially update and expand their grid before Chinas domestic chip manufacturing bridges the hardware gap that has been created by things like export controls? My money is on China here; Huawei, SMIC, etc have an engineering problem that is rapidly being addressed with gigantic state sponsorship (and frankly the major bottleneck is EUV lithography, which they are actively pursuing, though this is an issue that even with tens of billions will take many years to catch up to the west). While those barriers are real the American barriers are an extremely complex regulatory system (which is ultimately why trump is being directed to gut everything in terms of environmental and worker protections), funding (the oligarchs want this but not enough to part with their money, they want us to fund it), and unlike China the US drastically changes trajectory every 4-8 years.

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[–] eager_eagle@lemmy.world 27 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (6 children)

60% of the time it works every time

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[–] InFerNo@lemmy.ml 17 points 2 days ago (2 children)

I think it's meant to convey that it's not a temporary deal on the old price, but a permanent new price point.

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[–] chilldrivenspade@lemmy.world 89 points 3 days ago (1 children)

“permanently” means nothing when it comes to technology

[–] Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 2 days ago

I see you have never made a temporary fix in software.

[–] Ucarenya@lemmy.zip 27 points 2 days ago (1 children)

All about energy, and energy cost plays a role here, DeepSeek can go cheaper than western models...

[–] PushButton@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago (3 children)

It's not the whole picture, but I think people would be interested in this :

Renewable energy by country

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[–] lemmydividebyzero@reddthat.com 32 points 2 days ago (20 children)

Still doesn't know what happened at Tiananmen Square, but can tell in detail how protests were brutally ended a few years later in South Africa...

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[–] BeMoreCareful@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I just stumbled upon game Jesus asking some on the same questions.

https://youtu.be/1H3xQaf7BFI

He makes some good points about IP not being very sacrosanct in China. It sounds like it's not really a crime to buy and use these chips within China.

The difference in view over intellectual property is sort of fascinating if you think about it. Communism I guess.

Anyway, the real treat here is seeing the guy from Gamer's Nexus go meet and investigate. He literally followed the source and may have learned another language to do so?

It's kinda wild.

[–] RIotingPacifist@lemmy.world 25 points 2 days ago (7 children)

All numbers in AI are made up it's wild to see tankies glaze DeepSeek's fake numbers while being skeptical of Western corporations' numbers

[–] Calfpupa@lemmy.ml 28 points 2 days ago (7 children)

Not glazing when its simply enjoying watching China beat the US at its own game

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[–] Airfried@piefed.social 32 points 3 days ago (11 children)
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