this post was submitted on 01 Mar 2024
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Fridge failures: LG says angry owners can't sue, company points to cardboard box::NBC Bay Area’s Consumer team filed a report focused on faulty fridges, and then, viewers responded resoundingly about their own refrigerator problems....

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[–] aelwero@lemmy.world 177 points 8 months ago (2 children)

LG effectively has said that their owners manual and a cardboard box have authority over the courts. Clearly, as the courts have nullified it, they fucking dont.

All I see is a damned good reason to ban arbitration agreements outright. If you want to arbitrate a tort, you should be required to motion the court for it.

[–] ArchAengelus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 56 points 8 months ago (2 children)

I agree. I think arbitration should be limited to one-off cases, not class action lawsuits because you sell a faulty product.

[–] punkideas@lemmy.world 25 points 8 months ago

It shouldn't be allowed for contracts of adhesion (take or leave it contracts for consumers). Mandatory binding arbitration should be limited to business to business negotiated contracts.

[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 7 points 8 months ago

Arbitration should be allowed any time, never mandatory. Among other things, this would help balance the overwhelming power of the corp since they would want to encourage arbitration treating you fairly there

[–] badbytes@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

Yeah, by the time you even received the agreement, it's already bought and usually delivered and or installed.

[–] Railison@aussie.zone 160 points 8 months ago (3 children)

It boggles my mind that consumer protections in the US are so weak.

[–] bobs_monkey@lemm.ee 84 points 8 months ago

When you realize a significant number of our laws here are written by industry lawyers, it makes a lot more sense.

[–] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 61 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Absolutely. Mandatory arbitration is a miscarriage of justice so obvious that it is truly shocking to me that both the courts and the legislature allow it to continue.

[–] aramova@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago

Live here for a few months and you'll see a whole lot of things that'll boggle your mind.

[–] XEAL@lemm.ee 110 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (3 children)

Reminds of that video of Louis Rossmann where he says something like: if a company writes something in small print and/or on places where people won't look, it's because the company knows they would lose customers and damage their PR if people knew about it.

Aside of being legal or not, if LG really wanted their customers to be aware of their BS, maybe they should have put a big ass plastic warning sticker in the front of the fridge itself, preferably holding the door/s locked or on the inside, somewhere annoying where nobody would miss it.

[–] Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 8 months ago (3 children)

I agree with that guy a LOT but something rubs me the wrong way with him

[–] lukeb28@lemm.ee 8 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I think it's because he's such a staunch capatilist

[–] OrderedChaos@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Serious question. How is he a staunch capitalist if he is always advocating for right to repair? For consumer rights?

[–] agitatedpotato@lemmy.world 11 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Consumers having rights doesn't change the type of economic system. You could have consumer rights under feudalism and that would still be feudalism. The right to mend you own fence wouldn't make your feudal lord any less of your feudal lord. Heck and that example is even a worker right not a consumer one.

[–] Grangle1@lemm.ee 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

He is in the third-party repair business, so it makes sense for him to promote right to repair to protect his industry.

That, and as he often says, in an ideal capitalist world for both producer and consumer, the best way to retain business is to keep the customer happy, and an easy way to do that is to produce a quality product and not screw the consumer over, lest the product break or total itself and the customer go elsewhere for repair or replacement of the broken product. Satisfied customers in the first initial sale can lead to those customers returning often and recommending the business and product to others, leading to much more business (and profit) overall.

[–] billiam0202@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

He is in the third-party repair business, so it makes sense for him to promote right to repair to protect his industry.

That, and as he often says, in an ideal capitalist world for both producer and consumer, the best way to retain business is to keep the customer happy, and an easy way to do that is to produce a quality product and not screw the consumer over, lest the product break or total itself and the customer go elsewhere for repair or replacement of the broken product. Satisfied customers in the first initial sale can lead to those customers returning often and recommending the business and product to others, leading to much more business (and profit) overall.

Hmm, that sounds expensive. How about I give you a shoddy bomb casing filled with used pinball machine parts and put off worrying about any repercussions until next quarter?

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[–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 8 months ago

These motors have been a knows issue in refrigeration for a long time now. A lot longer than just 3 or 4 years. Meanwhile I have a 15 year old fridge/freezer still going great and a full size upright deep freeze in the garage that's like 30 years old.

[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Bullshit, then I still don’t know until after I bought it, took delivery, and “agreed to” whatever they decide to post there

It should need to be visible on the sales demo, and the online listing, so I do have an opportunity to look for an alternative

[–] BearOfaTime@lemm.ee 43 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Lol.

Any judge worth his salt will ask LG for proof the consumer agreed to arbitration.

[–] db2@lemmy.world 33 points 8 months ago (2 children)

LG will say that by opening the box they agreed to the terms, Microsoft started that one.

[–] BearOfaTime@lemm.ee 49 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (4 children)

That's not proof.

What if the delivery company opened it? What if the consumer didn't see it?

Prove the consumer read it. LG has no signed document, nothing, proving the consumer read and agreed to this.

A software license is different - when installing you click on a button saying "I agree".

[–] Shirasho@lemmings.world 38 points 8 months ago (1 children)

There has been legal precedent that terms of use are not legally binding since they don't expect customers to read it before clicking the I Agree button. They have made the agreements so long and put them in everything that they concluded there is no possible way anybody would ever read all of it for everything.

[–] bobs_monkey@lemm.ee 13 points 8 months ago

Not only that, but your average consumer isn't very well versed in legalese to actually understand everything in them.

[–] NeoNachtwaechter@lemmy.world 27 points 8 months ago (2 children)

A software license is different - when installing you click on a button saying "I agree".

Not different, because nobody knows who has installed the software.

Or even more: when I got my car, the kids were the first ones to play with the entertainment system, and they clicked many "I agree" buttons. But a kid's agreement is legally void.

[–] x4740N@lemmy.world 20 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Shitty life pro tips, get your kids to click I agree to licence terms so they're legally void

[–] Patches@sh.itjust.works 6 points 8 months ago

If you can - always have your children agree to all contracts.

They are legally protected from all contracts except Student Loans Debt. Thanks Biden.

[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

The licenses should be void because you had no opportunity to read and understand before purchasing, and they are wording them as a contract when they are unilaterally imposed

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[–] grue@lemmy.world 22 points 8 months ago (1 children)

A software license is different - when installing you click on a button saying “I agree”.

I did no such thing. Maybe my cat walked on the keyboard. Maybe I skipped over it with a debugger. Or maybe I did click on the button, but it did not constitute a legal meeting of the minds because I already owned the goddamn thing and it was nothing more than a mechanical step necessary to use my property!

Clickwrap agreements for software are no different at all. They're just as much bullshit as this nonsense LG is trying to pull, and always have been.

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[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago (4 children)

Last night the TV I’ve had for three years stopped working until I agreed to their terms of service, including their personal data sales. There was no opportunity to disagree, nor anything I could do with the TV until I did. You could prove I read it, but it’s ridiculous to claim I agreed to it before buying it or that I had any leverage for fair treatment.

I suppose I shouldn’t have had my TV on the network but it has an Apple TV app and my Firestick doesn’t

[–] cousinofjah@twit.social 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)
[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago

Vizio. It wouldn’t even let me use the built in airplay or Chromecast until I agreed to sell my soul.

The only thing that worked was HDMI inputs

[–] cousinofjah@twit.social 1 points 8 months ago (3 children)

And can it be factory reset?

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[–] fitjazz@lemmyf.uk 10 points 8 months ago

I never saw the box for my LG fridge. If you have a large appliance delivered the delivery people usually open it and leave all the packaging in the truck and just bring the appliance itself in.

[–] GlitterInfection@lemmy.world 39 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I hate LG more than any other company after dealing with their worst in class customer service when I bought a defective TV a couple years back.

It took 6 months of actively calling them and then creating a Twitter account and tweeting at their PR team and emailing the CEO to get my money back on the piece of junk.

Multiple hour+ long calls. Each time where I had to tell them everything from the previous calls that was supposed to be entered in their system, and was, but the call person literally didn't look at the screen in front of them. An hour long wait on hold to the claims department where someone picked up and then audibly hung up.

It was infuriating. But I had a $2,000 piece of junk in my house so I wasn't going to let it drop.

[–] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 30 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Shit like this is why I use my credit card for big purchases like that. Your shit doesn't work and you fuck around making it right? I'll get a charge back and you can deal with the credit card company because I ain't got time for that shit.

Haven't had to pull that card very many times, but its very nice when the business fucking me around suddenly really wants to make it right so they don't have to deal with the impacts of a charge back.

[–] bobs_monkey@lemm.ee 13 points 8 months ago (1 children)

It's amazing what happens when you mention chargeback to all these shitty companies and how quickly they change their tune.

[–] Patches@sh.itjust.works 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Charge backs cost them money in fees but more importantly - enough charge backs will increase their fees/penalties/required balances and in excess - remove their ability to take payments entirely.

[–] derf82@lemmy.world 35 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Arbitration clauses need to be banned, at least for regular consumer purchases.

But thanks to lobbying, that will never happen.

But at least I know never to ever buy anything from LG and Kenmore.

[–] frezik@midwest.social 6 points 8 months ago (3 children)

I'm starting to run out of mid-range appliance brands. Had problems with Bosch and Samsung. Now take off LG and Kenmore. There's a few others, but for the most part, it's either cheap appliances left or the higher end stuff like Sub-Zero/Wolf.

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[–] yesman@lemmy.world 34 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Everyone thinks the US is a litigious society, but it's the consequence of our political order. The lack of regulations are "compensated" by the right to tort. In many instances, there is no authority to enforce rights, only the ability to sue. The Americans with Disabilities Act works this way. (and there are many calling to remove that option, making the entire law theoretical)

Of course, the idea is that lawsuits will discourage people from getting redress because of the high-bar to enter a case into the legal system. But that wasn't enough, so the capitalists are trying to take that away too.

There are few things more obscene under capitalism than a privatized court system.

[–] ThiccSemperTyrannis@lemmy.world 26 points 8 months ago

Had one of their fridges a while back with their proprietary compressor design. It kicked the bucket at about 2-3 years old. All appliance repair shops that I contacted in my area, including an LG-certified one, declined repairs. Most of them even immediately asked if it was an LG when I asked if they did compressor replacements to head me off at the pass. It was a good product while it worked, but that's only half the equation.

[–] Zozano@lemy.lol 22 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

In 2023, my new LG dryer shit the bed after three months.

They sent a technician twice to replace the lint filter, and sent a third lint filter via mail when the error started again.

Apparently the lint filter sensor is dependant on a tiny magnet which can come loose if the plastic housing is so much as tapped wrong.

How many people do you think open up their lint filters over a bin and tap the lint out?

Fucking moronic design.

We never found out if it was a sensor fault, we were lucky enough to get a store credit and traded that fucker in. LG never again.

[–] books@lemmy.world 18 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Had an lg fridge shit the bed after a year or so.

Samsung did the same after a year.

Fuck them both.

[–] ahriboy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Chinese OEMs will steal the share

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[–] CptOblivius@lemmy.world 18 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I have one of these fridges that failed. It was delivered and installed initially...I never saw the box. How does that factor in? Plus don't buy LG, it's a shit company.

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[–] kevincox@lemmy.ml 9 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

A[n LG] spokesman said, "our focus on customer satisfaction is paramount.”

Ok, that got a solid laugh out of me.

[–] x4740N@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

My parents have a LG fridge and so far it's still running strong

Is it the newer recent fridges with defects or models from a specific country ?

[–] Landless2029@lemmy.world 23 points 8 months ago

Mine is about 7 years old. 2 years ago the compressor died on it. It was a new custom LG design. The part normally lasts 10 years.

I was out of warranty but LG still fixed it apparently due to a class action lawsuit forcing them to cover the compressor specifically due to all the failures.

Take what you will from that.

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