Uh....what... incorrect...?
This entire thread was spawned from someone posting a statistic relating to violent crime rates amongst different population groups.
Financial crimes, wage theft, jaywalking, or any other criminal act you can think of, that isn't categorized as a "violent crime", is irrelevant when the discussion is about one specific flawed violent crime statistic....
Of course it's not specific, which is the inherent problem with these stats. Crimes that are not reported, cannot be factored into the crime rates.
But you rarely see this amount of skepticism when people point out how rapes and sexual assaults are also significantly underreported.
In both instances you have victim groups who less likely to go to the police and report the crimes.
I am not saying poor people are intrinsically more deviant, or criminal in nature. Many factors play into the increased crime rates of people in poverty, including but not limited to, desperation and over policing.
I also never said that undocumented migrants couldn't have crime rates that trend below national averages. I said that the notion that their crime rates were half the national average was bogus, for reasons that you seem to acknowledge as well.
My point wasn't to provide the framework for calculating the actual rates, or more approximate estimations, because frankly I don't have that skill set. But then again, no ideas I laid out in these comments originated from me either. These are all well known problems with that bogus stat.
Either people think disinformation, or "fake news", is bad, or they don't. They can't cry and scream about it when MAGA people use it, and then turn around and use it they when they feel it's politically expedient.
Apparently I am, but maybe you can help!
Please, help educate me on when is it appropriate to advocate for genocide. When is calling for genocide just a rhetorical device, and when is like actually "bad"?
If I'm calling for genocide simply as a rhetorical device, can I also call the other people vermin as well? You know, for enhanced rhetorical value.
"...we need to rid this nation of your kind"
That was quick.
You managed to jump from accusing me of being anti-immigrant, to you yourself demanding a final solution, all in the same comment thread.
Yeah, I don't disagree.
But again, that has nothing to do with what's been discussed here.
For starters, this is about violent crime and it's not about the inherent criminality of any group of people.
It's about stats and why this particular statistic is critically flawed, and bogus.
What you're talking about has exactly nothing to do what's being discussed here....
Except for the possibility that the racist reputation of police in America may contribute to the reluctance of the undocumented persons to report when that they've been a victim of a crime...
Whew! For a split second you had me wondering whether or not you were completely full of shit, thanks for clearing that up.
So... You don't disagree that the majority of the undocumented migrant population reside within communities that have large numbers of other undocumented persons.
And you don't disagree that most perpetrators of crime victimize people within their same communities...
You just believe that undocumented persons report crimes to law enforcement at the same rates as legal residents and citizens...?
I take it you also believe the reported rates of rapes and sexual assaults to be accurate as well?
Well, if you do, let me be the first to tell you that rapes and sexual assaults are also underreported at statistically significant rates.
Really?
So you disagree with my broad strokes explainer on undocumented population distribution?
Or do you disagree with my assertion that most perpetrators of crime victimize people in their same community?
You're assuming that undocumented persons are evenly dispersed amongst the country, and in every community, when they're not.
While you'll find undocumented persons all over the country, like any other group, there are areas of heavy concentration that account for the majority of population. And in those areas, they tend to form communities around each other.
So if the vast majority of them live within communities that comprise heavily of other undocumented migrants, those crimes that are between two and undocumented persons, are significantly less likely to be brought attention of American law enforcement.
I'm not saying never, but that is a common enough occurrence to skew those stats and make them disingenuous at best.
Again, nothing new to what I'm saying here...
Of course.... Why wouldn't I?
Wait...Do you believe spreading bad information, or fake news, is justified if it's for something you believe in?
And it's not skepticism, it's a known flaw in that bogus stat. It's not like I'm breaking news here.
The crime stats are heavily skewed as undocumented persons are significantly less likely to involve the police.
Large groups of people are pretty predictable. The actual crime rates are probably much closer to the equivalent crime rates of the cities and neighborhoods that align to with their own economic status i.e class and poverty are the best predictors of crime rates, not citizenship, or lack thereof.
This isn't an argument for, or against, any immigration policy. It's an argument against using flawed statistics.
This is straight out of Monsanto playbook going back decades. There's a reason why a lot of countries have either passed laws legally shielding local farmers from accidental cross-pollination, or just banning GM seeds, not for any pseudoscience rational, but because of the way agro business uses natural cross pollination as a vector for lawfare and predatory business practices.