this post was submitted on 18 Jul 2025
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Why would anyone want Mao to wake up? The fuck kind of genocide denialism is this?
I think the joke is built on what Mao did to landlords.
Mao is very popular in the PRC, and among Marxists. The modern CPC recognizes his contributions as around 70% good, 30% bad. The Cultural Revolution in particular is a touchy subject largely seen as a misstep, but certainly not a "genocide" either. Same with famine, which was previously common in China but was only ended by the communists in power.
Mao's popularity stems from establishing socialism in China, successfully kicking out the Japanese imperialists and then winning the civil war against the nationalist Kuomintang, and building up a robust system of socialism in early China, accomplishing metrics like a doubling in life expectancy, large (but unstable, as Deng would later stabilize with socialist market reforms) economic growth, banning footbinding, and more.
Inventing genocides to discredit Mao must be a new one. Liberals are too stupid to level any valid criticism against him huh?
This comment can’t possibly be real
The dumbass lib comment is what can't be real. Too stupid to level valid criticisms like the great leap or subjective excesses in revolutionary violence and instead just making up a genocide to criticise someone? Pure ignorance.
Have you ever lived under a communist regime? I have, it sucked, it doesn’t mean I automatically become a capitalist right wing supporter, just cause I reject communism. Has communism ever worked without devolving into oligarchy? Ever? Im more of an anarchist, I believe communism doesn’t work because it relies on the hope that the people running the government will give the little people and equal share as them, and humans just aren’t that good. We suck. The communism I experienced came with a lot of oppression and poverty, maybe you mean socialism? Cause that’s different
Just because I think communism doesn’t work, doesn’t mean that I immediately agree with capitalism. I miss the days when a leftists could argue and debate with another leftists without being accused of being right wing or called names, just because our views may differ slightly. Be better
Nothing you just said has anything to do with the argument.
The fact is that you argued like a liberal using liberal talking points. There's plenty of things you can criticise any former socialist leader for. But using fake facts and rhetoric from the CIA, the black book of communism, various right wingers, etc. only enables their historic revisionism.
There's a stark rhetoric difference between saying the great leap was mishandled terribly and not sound from an ideological base and calling it an intentional genocide if that's what you were refering to with the genocide crap.
White American kids telling my indigenous ass how the world should work is exactly what’s been going on for decades, but it’s wild the level Of racism and colonial “papa knows best” attitude I’ve seen from the American left this past year
Are you on a completely different topic or what is going on with you?
Weaponizing your identity might work in reddit or Twitter but I don't think it's gonna get you traction here
Relying on your own personal anecdotes to prove a point is not helpful, same with asserting that someone has had to live in a socialist country to understand socialism. The truth is that socialism isn't oligarchy. All socialist countries have had governments, yes, but these are democratically elected. Further, socialism doesn't require "equal" distribution of resources, Marx railed against the "equalitarians" that argued as such.
Moreover, you seem to be confused on Marxism. Communism is a global system, countries like Cuba, the PRC, or the former USSR are examples of socialism. Socialism is a transitional status towards communism, it's the process of sublimating property until production is fully collectivized and thus society becomes classless, and this can only be complete globally.
As an example, wealth inequality in the USSR was around a difference of five times from the top and the bottom, while in Tsarist and capitalist Russia that number was hundreds to thousands od times higher.
Overall, people are being accused of being a liberal because their understanding of socialism and communism are severely lacking, and myopic.
I would say my experience is not an anecdote since it was shared by thousands but don’t let my people’s experience dissuade you from the ideas in your head that you developed while living in a shithole like the U.S
The vast majority of people who lived in the USSR regret the fall of socialism. I can find a thousand people who think the US Empire is the most morally just country in history that truly provides for its people, but genuinely studying history, statistics, and the mechanisms of political economy domestically and globally point to that being a fantasy.
I'm sorry, but I really don't have any reason to take a random internet stranger's anecdote any more seriously than the large amount of reading I've done on Marxism, anarchism, history, and political economy in general.
The fact that people with different views to you shocks you suggests you should get out of your ideological bubble more often
Give same situation and environment to a landlord see how their reign goes.
Sir, this is lemmy.ml. They think every bad thing you've heard about china is a CIA psyop
Not everything bad about China is CIA propaganda. They have a long way to go, economically and socially. At the same time, there's factually a large anti-PRC budget for US propaganda, largely stemming from the large amount of friction faced when dealing with a socialist country in the world capitalist market. It's accelerated because the PRC is currently surpassing the US in many key metrics, and is charted to do so in other areas in the coming years.
Uyghur concentration camps
White genocide
Yeah, when I said "every" I didn't mean that literally. But at least 3-4 of the bigger ones. Which is a lot. Especially since I've talked to actual Chinese people that live in China that are less delusional. But you do you.
I've also talked to actual Chinese people that live in China, too. The Marxists are more correct about China than the liberals, by quite a laughably large margin.
Yeah, but that's because the liberals that you're talking about are only liberals in name only and they think that China is some autocratic hellscape. It's easy to be closer to the truth than those people. Also you're both wrong. As is almost always the case, the truth is somewhere in the middle. But we're on .ml, so ofc people will disagree with me on that
Which part of this do you disagree with? You're being a contrarion at this point, I outright stated that not everything bad about China is a lie, just that a huge portion of it is. You just stated that "the truth is in the middle," but what I stated above already acknowledges that while good overall, China has a long way to go socially and economically. In fact, the fact that they largely succeed in their planning and are continuously improving both shows how far they have come and how far they have to go.
People are disagreeing with you moreso because you're just picking fights and playing the contrarion.
I'm not picking "fights", lol. I haven't replied to a .ml thread in months. And I'm not getting into that because I have before and almost none of you have budged an inch.
Not on Tiananmen Square(yeah, it didn't happen in the actual square, doesn't mean nothing happened),
not on the Uyghur situation(just because they're not getting genocided like the gazans doesn't mean "education camps" is a socially acceptable thing to put someone through),
not on the fact that the metrics that you're using to compare don't paint the full picture(such as the whole green energy thing when in reality they're still one of the highest CO2 emitting countries per capita)
nor on fact that you keep pretending that state capitalism = socialism, which is not. Just because a place is better than the USA doesn't mean that it's a good place.
Socially, yeah... Even worse xD I agree, they have tons of work ahead of them. And on certain issues (such as LGBTQ), they're not really progressing.
Okay, so I felt I needed to reply to that for some reason. But like I said, I've talked about these things before, with you included, and you've never budged, so I'm not getting back into it. So unless you need to reply for someone else, don't bother replying to me cause I'm not gonna respond anymore.
Well, since you brought these up...
Nobody says that nothing happened around the square and in Beijing either. Everyone recognizes it as a tragedy, just not the way western media reports on it.
Nobody said the re-education camps are perfect, just that there isn't mass sterilization or systematic murder like western countries claim.
The PRC's CO2 emissions are from producing what the vast majority of the world consumes. As far as consumption is concerned, emissions per capita in the PRC are low and shrinking.
The PRC is socialist, the large firms and key industries are publicly owned. It isn't in the later stages of socialism where private property has begun to disappear entirely and communism is around the corner, nor is it state capitalist like the Republic of Korea, Singapore, or Bismark's Germany, where the state is involved in planning a majority privately owned economy.
Socially, the PRC is making great strides. Jin Xing is one of China's top celebrities, and she's openly trans. The older generations are more conservative, but the younger generations are more progressive, and China's democratic structures mean change takes time but ultimately does come from below.
You seem to have a fantasy view of Marxists, while not being very well-read on socialist theory either. If you focused on connecting with people I think you'd get farther.
Not gonna waste time on all of that because it would take way too much time but first one is quite easy:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-48489002
https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/02073759-a8da-4b17-a90a-52001f60ecec.png
Both china's defense minister and .ml's admin seem to be disagreeing with you.
It's still a tragedy, even if putting down the riots that resulted in lynchings of innocents before the PLA came in was ultimately necessary. You're not really understanding what I'm saying.
A Maoist protest was twisted into a liberal one backed by the US, where the rioters went on to burn people alive and lynch unarmed officers.
You're the only one saying tragedy. The rest are praising it. One more just for "fun" "much ado about nothing"
At best, according to Chinese sources, it was 300 revolutionaries killed in response to a handful of lynched soldiers -> not praise worthy. That's called overkill.
At worst, according to the Swiss ambassador that was there, it was 2600-ish people. Definitely not praiseworthy. That's called a massacre.
Either way, not necessary. Ffs, the whole black lives matter which was a shit show and still there were 35-ish deaths. But yeah, it was necessary and praiseworthy. Give me a break. But it's good to finally get an actual stance out of you and not just dodgy bs. But you say "PLA" instead of "the army", so I'm not surprised.
They are stating that it was necessary to put down the color-revolution, a western-backed riot where the organizers themselves admitted to trying to provoke a violent response:
There were lynchings of officers, firebombings of vehicles, and widespread violence, all of a largely reactionary nature. These were not protests for social justice. Originally, they were ultraleft Maoists upset at Deng's market reforms, but later they became liberal protests, backed by the US.
It was a tragedy that it happened at all, that's correct, however if the counter-revolt succeeded in toppling socialism, countless lives would have been lost, just like when the USSR fell and 7 million people died that didn't have to.
Not sure what you mean by "dodgy BS," I have always been clear on what my stances are. I'm a Marxist-Leninist, I hold opinions generally held by Marxist-Leninists. I'm on Capital Volume 2. I'm a spooky scary socialist.
I said it was tragic that it happened in the first place, and it's horrible that the US took advantage of grievances the public had in order to force violent reaction. I also think it's a good thing that the socialist system remained, millions more lives have been saved and extended thanks to it, regardless if the rioters that burned unarmed officers alive lived to see those lives saved.
Again, though, you're deliberately avoiding having an actual conversation, and are looking to pick fights. I've talked about the June 4th incident before, several times, going over the causes, influences, distortions by the west, etc. A good source is Another View of Tiananmen by Sun Feiyang and Roderic Day.
I'm not going to apologize for being a Leftist, even if you call me pejoratives, lol.
The “mass murder” didn’t come from the Chinese state; it came from the CIA-backed terrorists. Like any state, the Chinese state has a duty to stop terrorist attacks.
📺 The Tiananmen Square "Massacre" Never Happened — [Sources]
The bigger ones literally are lmao. That's why they're the big ones, they've had a huge outpouring of resources to make them so. "Tiananment square" is a well documented psyop and so is the so called Uyghur genocide propped up almost exclusively on Adrian nonZenz
Meanwhile .world thinks that literally everything the US says about China is undeniable truth
.world is full of children.
I wish they were just children.
Well here's hoping they grow up before they die, people live long as fuck nowadays.
not every bad thing but quite a lot of it, yes.
Which is why we are ready for war with them at a moments notice.