this post was submitted on 21 Sep 2024
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Except when you peddle antisemitic tropes about the US government being controlled by Israel when the OPPOSITE is true. Fuck you dude. You are a danger to the movements you purportedly support.
The US created Israel and now we fund them and their genocide endlessly, but AIPAC money also permeates US politics. It’s a wild web of bullshit. Idk how any of that is antisemitic though. The only part I see as antisemitic was when the US and Britain didn’t want to take the Jewish diaspora themselves.
Saying that the US - the global imperialist hegemon - is controlled by Isreal, on top of being ridiculous, is deeply antisemitic.
It plays into the trope of Jews control everything. It handwaves every blatantly obvious reality about the relationship between the US and Isreal and says "Yup that colonial apendage is the real master of the US, because Jews."
Isn't that an Israeli talking point tho, that any criticism of them is anti-semitic, equating any criticism of the zionist project as anti-semitic? Seems like both white-supremacists (who want to see an evil jewish cabal controlling everything), and Israel (who want their state to be equated with judaism), agree on that equation, even though they're on opposite sides.
Isreal hides behind all of semitism as a human shield, so it makes sense that of the criticisms they label antisemitic (all of them) that some of them actually would be. It's understandable (not good or tolerable but also not an anomaly) that given the hideously complicated level of intertwining machinery between our two occupation governments, someone without a materialist grounding in the subject could come to confuse who controls who, especially someone who's grown up marinating in casually fascist explanations for the state of the world like most of us did
I just realized that it kind of sounds like I was implying you don't know materialism so I wanna clarify that I'm talking about a hypothetical rando, I know you're Dessalines lmao
Exactly. Im a stickler on this point because I've had to go through conversations with left leaning jewish friends who still have some lingering brainworms. It matters to understand what is actual antisemitism. The zionist will not act in good faith - so it's even more important for us to understand the difference
No. What I'm saying is that specifically believing the US is controlled by Isreal - that the US is subordinate to Isreal - that is an antisemitic belief (on top of being ridiculous). That's not an isreali talking point. Believing that is not helping combat zionism - it helps it.
I'm anti-zionist. That's why its very important to me to point out this antisemitic belief because its detrimental to the cause of anti-zionism.
That makes sense. Its a very weird thing to think anyway, that the most powerful country in history is somehow controlled by a vassal state they helped create, and who's only able to continue existing due to US support.
Yep, it's a hand-washing of the US's role in Zionism. The consequence of this line of thinking is that the US is merely being used, it sides with the Imperialist Hegemon against its vassal, excusing Imperalism.
It's the anti-Zionist Liberal interpretation, excusing the Empire for the deeds its Vassal commits.
Nailed it. They need to excuse the US and they get to do it in a racist way. Liberal win-win
~~I'm out of the loop. Did OP pull that shit in a post or comment somewhere?~~ Nvm, I just looked through their post history and they're big on the ZOG shit.
See the comment right below where another dipshit is claiming the US gov is controlled by Israel and AIPAC.
Oof, that's a problematic reading of Zionism. Sucks to see
Odd that your comments were moderated and ZOG is allowed to spread.
What they were? Not surprised really since the mods asside from Dessalines here are pretty shit.
in this thread,
https://lemmy.ml/post/20530766
all but one of your posts has been moderated. No issues with the ZOG conspiracy of course.
Oh of course they did it because I was "uncivil"
Are you denying the existence of AIPAC?
The US government is controlled by Israel, not because Israel is Jewish and Jews control the world, but because we "need" them to extend our sphere of influence to the Middle East, and they launder money from the people to the politicians (government gives them billions, they send millions back to specific politicians in exchange for support through groups like AIPAC).
The US government is controlled by Israel,
Yes that is antisemitic nonsense, but it also doesn't make any sense leaving that aside. You're saying the global imperialist hegemon is controlled by an appendage of its own policy. You're giving a pass to the US for it's policy and part in genocide by saying its "controled" by Isreal.
It is of course the other way around. Isreal destabilizes the Middle East toward the equilibrium the US favors. The US uses Isreal, its not controled by it
So are you denying that
Or did you specifically leave the context out because you can't refute it?
It's anti-semitic and doesn't make sense?
https://www.aipacpac.org/2024election
I'm saying the global imperialist hegemon created a base for pushing and encouraging their global imperialist policies and that includes pushing said policies back to the homeland.
The whole works to ensure the individual stays in line.
How? "Just doing my job" didn't absolve Nazis and SS soldiers, it doesn't absolve the US.
I personally do believe the US would prefer the genocide not be happening, as it's bad for business, especially during an election year where more eyes are on politics.
But the rest of what Israel brings is too valuable to the US global goals, so it goes along with Israel to preserve that and is therefore controlled on issues that Israel chooses to exert control over.
The US could theoretically not allow themselves to be controlled. But that's not the reality.
And Israel does this for nothing in return? Just like they give money to specific politicians for nothing in return?
It's a mutual relationship. btw...
Are absolving Israel of its role in the genocide by saying it's just a tool of the US?...
This is nonsense. Who has more economic power, the US or Israel?
Apologies, you are right actually.
Israel doesn't control the US.
BOTH are controlled by the will of the bourgeois and this is as far as any analysis is allowed to go, doing any further analysis would be nonsense.
You think your antisemtic trope is analysis?
The anti-semitic trope being what exactly?
You're really pretending you can't see the trope you've tripled down on? Its ZOG. Its the one way to criticize Isreal that actually is antisemitic
I don't think it's anti-semitic to observe the reality around us, the fact that ZOG exists doesn't mean I can't observe the ways in which Israel exerts control over US politics and opinions. As I pointed out in another comment, they provided historical funding to a pro-israel candidate to oppose Cori Bush, is it "Zog" to point out that Israel exerted control there?
That's a lot of words to double down on an antisemitic trope
Smol bean US being controlled by their own vassal that couldn't exist without their support. This is really deep analysis. You are a very deep thinker.
Strawmans are really fun.
It is not a strawman you are literally doubling and tripling down on an antisemitic trope known as ZOG. It is an unambiguously neo-Nazi talking point self crit my dude.
Is it anti-semitic "Zog" narrative to say that Israel bought, and therefore control the outcomes in, Missouri District ? (Cori Bush lost to a pro-israel candidate which attained historical funding from AIPAC)
Edit: it's not black and white where Israel controls America OR America controls Israel.
They both control each other in different ways/on different issues. It's not anti-semitic to point out the fact that Israel exerts control over the US sometimes.
Everyone arguing with you is anti-zionist. We want Isreal as it exists to end. If you care about the injustice and genocide of that fascist settler-colonial state, then I don't get why you want to die on the hill of an antisemitic position
Okay? I never said otherwise.
I don't think it's anti-semitic to observe the reality around us. As I asked above,
I'm not saying anything about shadow Jewish cabals controlling governments. I'm talking about the objective ways we can all see Israel exert control on U.S politics and opinions.
Edit: also
Do you not want Israel as a whole to end? Do you wish to reform them?
Yes.
Good to know.
Maybe if you think calling out all of the objectively true things Israel does equals the Zog narrative, maybe you are the one who believes in the Zog narrative.
I personally can seperate Israel from the Jewish people and don't think that Israels objectively controlling certain aspects of US politics reflects on Jewish people or Judaism at all, but instead solely on the colonial zionist entity of Israel which doesn't represent Jewish people or Judaism.
(Edit: and any country which had the leverage Israel has would be using it for their advantage as well, Israel just happens to be the one in that unique position.)
You are doing the same shit man