this post was submitted on 27 Dec 2023
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[–] assassinatedbyCIA@lemmy.world 216 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (9 children)

I can destroy 99% of cancer cells in a lab using a hammer. The important part is whether you can do the same in a person without killing them.

[–] RobotToaster@mander.xyz 219 points 11 months ago (3 children)
[–] medicsofanarchy@lemmy.world 24 points 11 months ago (2 children)
[–] StupidBrotherInLaw@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago

Or bleach. I can destroy 100% of cancer cells in vitro with a common household chemical that only costs pennies!

[–] blind3rdeye@lemm.ee 1 points 10 months ago

To be honest, when I read the title I wondered if fire is what they were referring to. After all, heat is basically just particles bumping around... could be described as vibrating.

[–] 21Cabbage@lemmynsfw.com 9 points 11 months ago

First thing that came to mind.

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[–] mihies@kbin.social 23 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The test was done on mice where half of them ended cancer free and I assume survived.

[–] assassinatedbyCIA@lemmy.world 26 points 11 months ago (5 children)

No lab mice survive the lab unfortunately.

[–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 6 points 10 months ago

They only have to survive the experiment

[–] HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works 5 points 10 months ago

Shouldn't have been so tasty.

[–] linearchaos@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

To be fair they only live a couple of years anyway.

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[–] Rapidcreek@lemmy.world 23 points 11 months ago (4 children)

You'd think that it would be a might difficult getting a hammer into a body, but I salute you.

[–] Twinklebreeze@lemmy.world 82 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You don't need to. Just keep hammering away until you reach the cancer. Phase II trials start soon.

[–] beebarfbadger@lemmy.world 18 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 2 points 10 months ago

I volunteer my biological father, I can remove his limbs with a turn of the century brass blowtorch if that helps the experiment.

[–] NounsAndWords@lemmy.world 30 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I would argue it is actually quite easy to get a hammer into a body. Precision and accuracy are the larger concerns.

[–] Deceptichum@kbin.social 8 points 11 months ago (1 children)

If you simply get a large enough hammer those concerns go away.

[–] fmstrat@lemmy.nowsci.com 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Or smaller, depending on point of entry.

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[–] StuffYouFear@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago

What if we insert it and used a MRI machine to steer it at the speed of sound

[–] RobotToaster@mander.xyz 9 points 11 months ago

You won't get it in there with that attitude.

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[–] fmstrat@lemmy.nowsci.com 14 points 11 months ago

Aminocyanine molecules are already used in bioimaging as synthetic dyes. Commonly used in low doses to detect cancer, they stay stable in water and are very good at attaching themselves to the outside of cells.

Looks like an interesting choice, since they were already made to attach to cancer cells.

They work like an existing method, but with infrared light vs visible, which penetrates deeper into the body.

[–] MustrumR@kbin.social 12 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

The thing about the used molecules is that they attach to the cancer more than other cells.

Apart from that you can concentrate the infrared light at the main clusters.

I'd say it is an improvement. Even if only the main clusters are destroyed it's noninvasive way to reduce the chance of mutation (less cancer cells means less chances for a mutation to gain chemo resistance).

[–] HubertManne@kbin.social 2 points 11 months ago

I agree although the term used sounds like something stan lee coined.

[–] Loulou@lemmy.mindoki.com 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Well, killing 99% of cancer cells is quite useless, the 1% left will now thrive and if they survived because they were different (and not just luckily escaping the treatment) you now have 100% of cancer cells you can't treat anymore.

Better case, the 1% "lucky" cancer cells just re-invade.

[–] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

It could extend the life of the patient with a few years.

[–] Loulou@lemmy.mindoki.com 1 points 10 months ago

Maybe, or just extending the suffering for a couple of months. Hope it gets better!

[–] assassinatedbyCIA@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Best case scenario is that your immune system takes care of the final 1%. Worse case scenario is exactly as you described and you get mets that are resistant to therapy.

[–] Smoogs@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

I thought the issue is your immune system wouldn’t know to take care of the final 1%. As that’s the issue with cancer: it isn’t an antigen. It is something made by the body so it’s already coated in a natural sheep’s clothing to escape being detected by the immune system. Hence why breakthroughs in marking the cells is so important so at least an outside force can treat it.

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[–] JadenSmith@sh.itjust.works 55 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Does this mean playing competitive chess could prevent cancer??

[–] Monument@lemmy.sdf.org 36 points 11 months ago

A chemical that can’t target cancer cells can be triggered to vibrate in such a way that it destroys cell membranes by a light source that attenuates by about 90% over 1mm of flesh (down to 1% of the original strength at 2mm).

If they could target just cancer cells, it would work for some skin cancers.
Infrared and near infrared transmit a good amount of heat. I imagine that even if they figure out the targeting issue, unless the light to vibration process is highly efficient, the point at which the light source is just burning the patient’s flesh will be reached long before there’s anything but a limited use case.

I guess the mechanism is good to know about, but it’s unlikely to turn into a cure for cancer.

[–] AdamEatsAss@lemmy.world 16 points 11 months ago (2 children)

99% of non-cancerous cells were also destroyed.

[–] crit@links.hackliberty.org 9 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I don't see the part of the article that mentions that?

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[–] mihies@kbin.social 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I don't get this comment at all. Wat?

[–] BestBouclettes@jlai.lu 17 points 11 months ago

Killing cancer cells is easy enough, the hard part is only killing cancerous cells

[–] Konstant@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago (1 children)

He's saying it destroys all cells, cancerous and non-cancerous. Don't know if it's true, haven't read the article.

[–] mihies@kbin.social 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Obviously it's not true hence I don't get it. The holy grail is to destroy just cancerous cells, it's easy to destroy all. 🤷‍♂️

[–] JGrffn@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

The article makes no mention to the molecules only working on cancer cells. The molecules, according to the article, attach to cell membranes, and then the molecules are jiggled to blow up the cells. That process doesn't mention an ability to differentiate between cancer and non-cancer cells. The technique was tried on a culture growth, where a hammer would have the same results. It was also tried on mice, where half were left cancer-free, but little is said about the process, the specifics of the results, or what happened to the other half of mice.

We all get the goal of cancer research, OP is just doubtful that this achieves it, as am I, as well as anyone who's read good news about eradicating cancer in the past few decades. Most are duds or go nowhere even if initially promising, so...

[–] originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com 13 points 11 months ago (2 children)

i asked this in another thread, how do they get the novel molecule to attach to only cancer cells. apparently they havent gotten that far yet.

[–] emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works 1 points 10 months ago

Cancer cells divide faster than other cells, meaning they have some structural differences. Most drugs (not sure about this one) exploit this difference.

[–] RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago

"Inject the Jiggler."

[–] NatakuNox@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Doesn't a microwave vibrate molecules?

[–] Lazz45@sh.itjust.works 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Yes, in a sense. It technically isn't vibrating them, but rapidly spinning them due to the constantly changing magnetic field (produced by the magnetron).

Since water has a dipole moment (one side of the molecule experiences a slight positive charge, while one side experiences a slight negative charge) it will react to changes in an electric field just like a magnet would

Edit: I'd also like to add this is not specific to water. Some fats and other food material also undergoes that rotation, and the same concept (with different frequencies and wavelengths) is used in industrial processes all the time to quickly, and efficiently heat materials

[–] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

That %1 is gonna be a bitch

[–] Abnorc@lemm.ee 1 points 10 months ago

Snipers will take care of them.

[–] EdibleFriend@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

So we're back to things like what led to the original vibrators.

[–] BoastfulDaedra@lemmynsfw.com 1 points 11 months ago

You may be onto something there. Near-infrared activated chemical vibrators... how fast do these jiggle again?

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