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So I've been iso live testing Manjaro KDE Plasma lately and it looks very polished.

On the other hand, there is a negative vibe towards it.

Why the hate?

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[–] drwankingstein@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Manjaro for some reason can't stop breaking crap, and when they do break crap, they aren't exactly elegant about it

[–] interceder270@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Been using it exclusively for 3 years, never had breakage.

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[–] plasticcheese@lemmy.one 8 points 1 year ago

I'll keep it short and sweet.

I've been using Manjaro for about 6 years now.

When I had an Nvidia GPU, it would break after quite a few updates and need a rollback.

Then I moved to an AMD card, and I haven't had any issues at all.

Like...at all.

The End.

[–] highduc@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

It's not all "purists" and "tribalism", Manjaro actually has issues. Besides the well known certificate issues and older packages, I have the following anecdote which made me really dislike it.

A friend has Manjaro and one day his nvidia drivers stopped working after an update. I helped troubleshoot over the phone, while looking over the wiki. For nvidia drivers they have their own wrapper around pacman.

Turns out there's a different nvidia driver for each kernel version. Already a stupid design. So unlike arch where there's 1 kernel package (the latest the distro offers) and 1 matching nvidia driver, Manjaro has dozens...

The wiki never mentions how to install or update the drivers manually with pacman or anything like that. It pushes their own tool, a stupid wrapper around pacman, which is supposed to manage this for you.

In my friend's case, the tool failed. It was trying to run pacman but there was a conflict issue. But the tool didn't show the pacman output, so we couldn't figure out what the tool is trying to do, and why it doesn't work. We tried removing the tool and re-installing, and all kinds of messing around with it. It failed to install the drivers, it failed to remove the drivers, it kept failing whatever we tried.

Eventually we figured out the naming convention they used for the packages (again not mentioned in the wiki), and manage to install the correct kernel - driver pair manually, using pacman.

Tl;dr: poor design, bad documentation, and they push their own crappy tools which hinder instead of helping

[–] Atemu@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

there’s a different nvidia driver for each kernel version. Already a stupid design

That's not a stupid design at all. A nvidia kernel module artifact is only compatible with exactly one kernel ABI. Thus you need one binary nvidia package for each kernel you ship.

Arch also has one package for every kernel ABI they ship: nvidia and nvidia-lts.
Though it should be noted that their design assumes that these two ABIs are the only possible ABIs which isn't strictly the case as the zen, hardened or RT variants may sometimes lag behind their regular counterpart. That's a stupid design if anything as it increases the friction of kernel ABI upgrades as a kernel package maintainer.

We at NixOS also ship the nvidia module for each of our ~50 kernel variants; all major versions of the Nvidia module compatible with that kernel in fact.
The only possible way to access these nvidia kernel modules is via a certain kernel's linuxPackages attribute set that contains all packages that rely on a kernel ABI such as kernel modules or packages like perf. That's good design if you ask me but I'm obviously biased ;)

[–] highduc@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I know you need a new nvidia driver every time the kernel updates, but why keep 50 kernel versions? My beef was them offering so many (outdated) versions instead of keeping the latest one which would make things very simple for users (imo).

[–] Atemu@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago

These aren't all versions per se but mostly variants, versions and versions of variants. For example, we have packaged the xanmod kernel which is a modified kernel optimised for desktop use but it has two variants: Main and LTS. We have packaged both.

Here are the names of all of our kernels currently to give you an idea (as a JSON list):

[
  "linuxPackages",
  "linuxPackages-libre",
  "linuxPackages-rt",
  "linuxPackages-rt_latest",
  "linuxPackages_4_14",
  "linuxPackages_4_19",
  "linuxPackages_4_19_hardened",
  "linuxPackages_4_9",
  "linuxPackages_5_10",
  "linuxPackages_5_10_hardened",
  "linuxPackages_5_15",
  "linuxPackages_5_15_hardened",
  "linuxPackages_5_18",
  "linuxPackages_5_19",
  "linuxPackages_5_4",
  "linuxPackages_5_4_hardened",
  "linuxPackages_6_0",
  "linuxPackages_6_1",
  "linuxPackages_6_1_hardened",
  "linuxPackages_6_2",
  "linuxPackages_6_3",
  "linuxPackages_6_4",
  "linuxPackages_6_5",
  "linuxPackages_6_5_hardened",
  "linuxPackages_6_6",
  "linuxPackages_custom",
  "linuxPackages_custom_tinyconfig_kernel",
  "linuxPackages_hardened",
  "linuxPackages_latest",
  "linuxPackages_latest-libre",
  "linuxPackages_latest_hardened",
  "linuxPackages_latest_xen_dom0",
  "linuxPackages_latest_xen_dom0_hardened",
  "linuxPackages_lqx",
  "linuxPackages_rpi0",
  "linuxPackages_rpi02w",
  "linuxPackages_rpi1",
  "linuxPackages_rpi2",
  "linuxPackages_rpi3",
  "linuxPackages_rpi4",
  "linuxPackages_rt_5_10",
  "linuxPackages_rt_5_15",
  "linuxPackages_rt_5_4",
  "linuxPackages_rt_6_1",
  "linuxPackages_testing",
  "linuxPackages_testing_bcachefs",
  "linuxPackages_xanmod",
  "linuxPackages_xanmod_latest",
  "linuxPackages_xanmod_stable",
  "linuxPackages_xen_dom0",
  "linuxPackages_xen_dom0_hardened",
  "linuxPackages_zen"
]

(Note that some of these are aliases; linuxPackages_latest is currently linuxPackages_6_6 for example.)

Each of these has the following nvidiaPackages (modulo incompatibilities):

[
  "beta",
  "dc",
  "dc_520",
  "latest",
  "legacy_340",
  "legacy_390",
  "legacy_470",
  "production",
  "stable",
  "vulkan_beta"
]

(Again, some of these are aliases.)

This is useful to have because users might have hardware constraints. It's not hard to imagine a scenario where a user might have a WiFi chip that only works with kernel ABIs < 5.4 and require the 470 nvidia driver for their old GPU. Packaging just the latest kernel and just the latest Nvidia driver would make this user unable to use their system.

[–] ikidd@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Turns out there’s a different nvidia driver for each kernel version

That is literally every version of Linux out there. IDK what you think was different about Manjaro in that respect. Nvidia hates linux and it's a tough thing to keep it running, especially on a rolling release. Use the DKMS driver if you're going to update kernels a lot. At least manjaro seperates the kernel installs from the general updates to minimize this disruption.

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[–] LeFantome@programming.dev 7 points 1 year ago (7 children)

I used to be a huge Manjaro fan. There were many ways it let me down, some of which were just bad governance.

The biggest problem though is the AUR. Manjaro uses packages that are older than Arch. The AUR assumes the Arch packages. This, if your use the AUR with Manjaro, your system will break.

It is not a question of if Manjaro will break but when. Every ex-Manjaro user has the same story.

For me, EndeavourOS is everything that Manjaro should be.

[–] ikidd@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

if your use the AUR with Manjaro, your system will break

Oh, bullshit.

[–] interceder270@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Yeah. Notice how he doesn't mention how Manjaro holding back packages can actually prevent breakage that Arch users have to deal with.

The manjaro hate-boner is just tribalism and elitism. Every one of these threads reinforces that.

[–] lemmyvore@feddit.nl 3 points 1 year ago

if your use the AUR with Manjaro, your system will break.

If your system breaks because of AUR it means you're using AUR wrong... you're not supposed to use AUR packages for critical system functions. It will break on Arch too if you do that.

[–] furycd001@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Endeavour is basically Arch but with bling out of the box & an easier installer....

[–] Sentau@feddit.de 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What bling¿? I thought endeavorOS was very minimalist as well. Just arch with an easier installer

[–] furycd001@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

Bling as in pre-installed themes....

[–] ooi_vebnq@r.nf 2 points 1 year ago

I am not the most technically astute person, using Manjaro and the AUR for like five years and never had my system break. Yes, some package problems here and there, but where do you not have them ever? And so far nothing an internet search couldn't fix. I found it very stable both in the XFCE and the KDE spin.

[–] interceder270@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

This, if your use the AUR with Manjaro, your system will break.

Been using Manjaro with the AUR for 3 years, never had the breakage you described.

[–] Samueru@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

The AUR doesn't assume arch packages, if the package your aur script wants isn't in your repo then the package simply fails to update/install.

Edit: This is true even for Arch linux, as the Aur package might be out of date.

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[–] miracleorange@beehaw.org 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

In short, the maintainers have made questionable decisions over the years, and the Arch Linux packages are held back by two weeks on Manjaro for... basically no reason.

If you want an out-of-the-box solution to Arch Linux, just use EndeavourOS.

[–] Kongar@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 year ago

This. Manjaro isn’t trash, but there are better options. This coming from a guy who used manjaro and loved it for years.

[–] Merlin@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

So. I’m a happy Manjaro user. I don’t install a lot of things and have had AUR updates break stuff likely due to the 2 weeks delay Manjaro adds to their packages.

I’m still using it on multiple devices and I’m really happy. I considered moving to endeavour but I wasn’t sure how it would handle hardware updates. I mean, my understanding is that Manjaro is more “noob” friendly and I don’t consider myself an expert. I used the Manjaro hardware helper to fix my video drive several times and I like the simplicity of the command. Does endeavour require a more advanced user? Does it have the “easy to use” troubleshooting things that Manjaro has?

Ah. What about the Kernel uploader? I think the Manjaro one is unique to Manjaro right? Is there another one for regular arch/endeavour?

[–] miracleorange@beehaw.org 2 points 1 year ago

Endeavour has plenty of "beginner" tools, including a kernel manager (literally called A Kernel Manager) and a friendly GUI Welcome app that helps you update your system and your mirrors.

[–] CrypticCoffee@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago

I've had it break many times during update. Don't get me wrong, I liked it at first, but if you want a system that works after update, you're probably better checking elsewhere. Linux Mint, and Kubuntu are far better simplicity wise. Open Suse or Arch if you want rolling updates.

[–] HeyLow@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I used Manjaro for about 3 years

Its great but packages tend to break over time with it being a "stable" arch build

Over that 3 year period updates managed to break my install at least 30 times

Switched to Endeavour over a year ago and haven't had an update break my install yet

[–] Helix@feddit.de 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

That sounds more unstable than plain Arch.

[–] 0x4E4F@infosec.pub 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Holding back packages can do that. Not in sync with what the AUR has to offer is just asking for trouble.

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[–] NoisyFlake@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

There's not really any benefit of running Manjaro over Arch, it will only introduce problems over time. If you want a "pre-configured" Arch with a nice installer, go for EndeavourOS, it's great!

[–] lemmyvore@feddit.nl 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Manjaro has graphical tools that make it super easy to manage packages, drivers and kernel versions.

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[–] ikidd@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

I have almost a dozen installs of it in the wild for a few years now, with friends and relatives that aren't very computer literate. It has been virtually maintenance free. This is on wildly disparate hardware as well, and it's always installed nicely and with little messing around after to get things working.

People like to hate on it; it's been by far the most reliable distro I've used, far better than "just works^TM " distros like Fedora and Ubuntu. I'd ignore the naysayers and use if it works for you.

[–] MiddledAgedGuy@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I haven't seen this mentioned yet, and there's a good number of responses so maybe I'm up in the night, but it seems to me Manjaro's philosophy is somewhat counterintuitive to Arch's. Arch pointedly obfuscates system internals as little as is reasonable to "keep it simple" from a system perspective. Manjaro simplifies things for the user but creates additional obfuscation. I can see some people who value Arch's approach being less than amenable to that.

But that's not a reason to not use it. If Manjaro's approach appeals to you, use it.

BTW, I don't use Arch (at the moment)

[–] PureTryOut@lemmy.kde.social 4 points 1 year ago (11 children)

The real question is, why are you considering Manjaro in the first place? What does it do that a different distro, without all the hate (which I personally think are 100% justified), doesn't do? Why "risk" it?

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[–] interceder270@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Manjaro is the best.

The longer you spend in these internet communities, the more you'll realize there's a substantial amount of losers who can't form their own opinions. They'll just repeat whatever is popular in order to fit in.

[–] Neikon@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

It works for me, I have KDE version. I have AUR apps, SNAP (VSC works better in snap than flatpak), official repo apps. I have not had any errors in the 6 months I have been using it.

[–] Helix@feddit.de 3 points 1 year ago
[–] terminhell@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 year ago

Just give it a go. I used it for years, and had relatively little issues tbh. Most of them I think are hardware related as I'll have similar issues in other distros and even windows.

The devs have done some goofs yes. Things like letting certs expire, and as mentioned already, potential issues with aur. But, I remember having aur issues even with vanilla arch in the past.

Using fedora currently though, and I don't think I'll switch anytime soon.

[–] yum13241@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

https://manjarno.pages.dev

Basically, the Manjaro team has no idea what they're doing.

The ManjarNO sheep can fuck off to Reddit for all I care.

[–] HouseWolf@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

I haven't personally used Manjaro but I've been daily driving EndeavourOS with KDE for a few months and it's been rock solid.

Like Manjaro it's also Arch based but still uses the vanilla Arch repos, Basically it's just Arch for lazy people (like me).

[–] Sebbe@lemmy.sebbem.se 2 points 1 year ago

I ran Manjaro happily for a while because I was scared of the Arch installation process. A couple of years ago, though, an update broke my system. By then, the archinstall script had come along so I tried installing Arch with that and I haven't looked back.

[–] Fizz@lemmy.nz 2 points 1 year ago

I've had nothing but a great stable experience with it. I tried the other distros like endeavor and Garuda but they both looked ugly and had some issue after install. I think people hate manjaro because it's bloated but I appreciated that everything I needed was already setup, configured and good to go.

I didn't install any aur packages because those are unsupported and I don't know enough to support them myself.

[–] ReCursing@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

Running Manjaro here. I'm been using Linux exclusively for years, and while I'm not a power user I like to think I'm conversant with it. I've had the odd problem here or there, but honestly not any more than I would expect with any other distro. I picked it because I wanted a rolling release distro that used KDE, and SuSE Tumbleweed didn't want to install that day!

[–] GreyFalcon@iusearchlinux.fyi 1 points 1 year ago

I have manjaro running on six machines. No problems that were not Just part of learning. Two of those computers were for testing different distros.... All ended up with Manjaro.

Hate is for people that don't create, or improve their own world.

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