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I am trying to choose between buying a Nintendo Switch or a Nintendo DS.

This may not be the perfect community to ask - but I can't think of any better place.

The reason for my question: I don't want to own obsolete hardware in 10 years. Lately most games seem to depend on a "phone home" feature, which is not really an issue for my pc because it is always connected, but a console is something I want to play always and everywhere.

I already did some searching and found that games can be played offline fine (most of them, some exceptions are there like Multiplayer and Mortal Kombat), but:

  • There is something like the paid Nintendo Online Account. I am not planning on having a paid account. How much of the system depends on the account?
  • Can I have progression in a game (let's say: one of the Zelda franchise) and will my Wife and Kids all have their own progression, without having to pay for X accounts?
  • People who own a Switch, let's take this to extremes, do you feel like in 20 years from now you can still do the same things on your hardware as you can do now? (No multiplayer is fine)

Also, feel free to rant about "paying is not owning", the state of the gaming industry is horrible.

edit: Thank you all for the comments! I don't post a lot, so it was kinda overwhelming :)

For clarity:

  • I meant I want to "buy for life" (not really "life", but, if the hardware survives you can play on pre-internet consoles forever - you can even buy more games if you can find them)
  • I want to buy a physical copy of the games, not download them

I've decided to go with the Nintendo DS for now (I have a DSi - this week I bought a couple of games, 2nd hand). Reasons:

  • I already had it
  • Joycons on switch. Multiple people mentioned having problems with them. I don't count on being able to buy them new in 10 years, meaning they will have to last.

Again: thank you all for the useful input!

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[–] amzd@kbin.social 112 points 9 months ago (9 children)

A steam deck can run all the games those two can and it runs Linux which means it will probably never be obsolete

[–] Facebones@reddthat.com 22 points 9 months ago (1 children)

It's pretty repair friendly as well.

[–] narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee 7 points 9 months ago (5 children)

The battery is a notable exemption from this (as is the display), which is also the most likely to fail multiple times over a span of 20 years. It's certainly doable, just not as simple as swapping out the thumb sticks for example.

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[–] flora_explora@beehaw.org 10 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Second that. It is a bit of a hassle to get all the games and to access them on the deck, but once you set that up, it runs great and you also are much less limited :)

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[–] graymess@lemmy.world 37 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

You have plenty of answers already, but one thing I want to point out that might not have been mentioned yet: The DS line of handhelds are unique hardware; the Switch is not.

By that I mean there is a vast library of games developed over ~15 years that were designed for the dual screen layout. Don't listen to what anyone tells you about emulation; those games are much, much better when played on actual Nintendo hardware, not because they run poorly on emulators, but because your phone, monitors, Steam Deck, and TV are one horizontal screen. Every alternative layout I've seen for emulating DS games is an awkward compromise to fit two screens on one. It sucks, it doesn't look good, and you'll have to change the layout on a per game basis because one size absolutely does not fit all.

Now look at the Switch. It's a standard 16:9 720p touch screen. Everything that can and will ever be built powerful enough to emulate a Switch will display those games in the way they were intended to be presented. When Switch emulation is perfect (and it's most of the way there) there is no compromise. You can already play Switch games on other handheld devices at higher resolutions and frame rates than the Switch itself can handle and it's an objectively better experience.

I only offer this perspective because you're talking about a very long term view of device ownership. We are now well past the period of game development on two screens as it existed on the DS line of handhelds. I highly doubt that phase of game design is ever coming back. And like it or not, many of those games are best experienced on the original hardware they were designed for and that will probably still be the case 20 years from now. On the other hand, we already have a plethora of alternative hardware options for games made for the Nintendo Switch and those numbers will grow considerably between now and 2044.

[–] ObsidianZed@lemmy.world 15 points 9 months ago (2 children)

not because they run poorly on emulators, but because your phone, monitors, Steam Deck, and TV are one horizontal screen.

Me looking at my half unfolded Galaxy Fold 5.

Say what you will about the foldables, but I enjoy my versatility.

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[–] CorrodedCranium@leminal.space 10 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

Well said the only thing I'd add is the 3DS line can play original DS games just fine. I would go that route rather than purchase something like a DS Lite with a flashcart.

It can also emulate up to PSX relatively well and I believe there's a somewhat decent homebrew scene. Not to the Vita's level but I think there's a decent amount of homebrew applications and custom themes.

[–] graymess@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago

The "new" 3DS especially is an improvement on the original when it comes to emulation. And yeah, just last week someone ported Moonlight for it, which works surprisingly well for a device that only has a 2.4GHz WiFi card.

[–] zarenki@lemmy.ml 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I never liked to play DS games on 3DS because of the blurry screen: DS games run at a 256x192 resolution while the 3DS screens stretch that out to 320x240. Non integer factor scaling at such low resolutions is incredibly noticeable.

DSi (and XL) similarly can be softmodded with nothing but an SD card, though using a DS Lite instead with a flashcart can enable GBA-Slot features in certain DS games including Pokemon.

[–] MomoTimeToDie@sh.itjust.works 7 points 9 months ago

I don't remember the buttons to hold, but when you boot a ds game on 3ds, and hold the right buttons, it boots pixel-perfect on a smaller segment of the 3ds screen such that it's the same exact resolution as a ds screen

[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 32 points 9 months ago (1 children)

If it's like my other consoles from 20 years ago, It'll be sealed in a box in the attic while you emulate it without a thought.

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[–] stevestevesteve@lemmy.world 27 points 9 months ago (1 children)
  1. Nintendo online is a lot like Xbox live. You can play single player without it (generally) but have to pay to get online/multiplayer

  2. yes, you can have multiple accounts on the switch each with their own save, without paying for online for all/any of them.

  3. I don't know if I'd guarantee that. Who knows what dumb services things rely on. If you want something that'll work maybe consider a more open ecosystem like that of the steam deck or its competitors

[–] falkerie71@sh.itjust.works 5 points 9 months ago (7 children)

I don't know if Steam counts as an "open" ecosystem though. You still kinda need to be online to play Steam games, and you can only launch said game with Steam. DRM free option would be GOG games, which doesn't require online and the GOG launcher to play games afaik.

[–] CorrodedCranium@leminal.space 9 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

They said the Steam Deck and it's competitors. They are talking about handheld gaming computers which can be used to play whatever; including Switch games. Not Steam specifically.

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[–] lemann@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

You still kinda need to be online to play Steam games

It depends really, I've personally never been prevented from opening a Steam game with or without a connection.

Some other games are less clear - I'll use Palworld as an example: this can be played offline, on a dedicated server on the same network, but it needs to fetch your username from Steam first, and perform some checks using Epic Online Services. As long as it's started by the Steam client it's OK, and the errors regarding EOS servers can be dismissed.

Some people have managed to join official online multiplayer servers using pirated Palworld copies, so I would not expect the current graceful network error handling to be so lenient in future updates.

you can only launch said game with Steam.

Pirated steam games can be started using an open source steam emulator - protection is basically non existent compared to intrusive DRM like Denuvo. Although I do get where you're coming from in regards to the platform & accompanying client software being a closed ecosystem.

Steam's hardware on the other hand, that's open all day long 👌

DRM free option would be GOG games, which doesn't require online and the GOG launcher to play games afaik.

I fully agree.

I'm going to be controversial here with the launcher requirement though: I use Steam because it is a launcher, games store, save file sync client, online social platform, modding client (Workshop) and games library all in one. Any device I pick up - my deck, linux laptop, or windows desktop - will continue from where I left off, without fail.

For that reason the only DRM I'll turn a blind eye to is Steam's own: it never gets in the way of me accessing what I purchased. With Proton/SteamPlay, games originally targeted for Windows work seamlessly on my preferred platform, Linux. If a game is unsupported, it will still set up the compatibility layer for you at your choice, for further investigation at your leisure.

Their policies also prevent developers from revoking games from users' libraries, unless it's a Free To Play title (most of these will have an EULA orange warning box stating such).

DRM should not have to exist at all to be honest, but in the current reality where publishers want some "protection" on their games, I'll either accept the single, most unrestricted one, or head to the open seas 🏴‍☠️

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[–] Tristaniopsis@aussie.zone 18 points 9 months ago (2 children)

This is a deeply philosophical question involving time, the nature of ‘self’ and potential for physical abilities, and indeed mortality itself.

I mean… how much of an answer do actually want?

[–] massive_bereavement@kbin.social 16 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

OP is just asking if he can use the Switch offline and what will happen to games bought online, albeit phrased very oddly.

[–] RagingToad@feddit.nl 10 points 9 months ago (1 children)

LOL phrased oddly? English is not my first language.

I thought it was common knowledge that paying for something (console) and owning it was not the same these days, so I just want to know what I am buying..

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[–] Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

42 not enough of an answer for you people? Does everything need to be spelled out?

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[–] NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 15 points 9 months ago (7 children)

Not going to comment on the software ecosystems because that is pure speculation and anyone claiming otherwise is talking out of their ass.

What I will instead point out is: your hardware is likely to fail in that time period. "Planned obsolesce" or whatever, I don't care how you justify it. The reality is that these contain batteries that will degrade, and eventually fail. That is why anyone with a PSP or a Vita should check if it is bulging and dispose of it accordingly. And I think it is the xbox 360 that has a capacitor that people should cut before it leaks? Or basically any PC from 20 or so years ago where you need to repair the system clock on the mobo.

Hell, people love to talk about how unbreakable and amazing the NES is. Except... just look at GDQ where they have had multiple (?) instances of consoles failing during runs and the runners even talk about needing to source functioning consoles and scrap them for parts. This is why the speed running community went from gatekeeping "Rawr, only original hardware" to "So... those FPGAs are fucking cool, right?"

Much like with PC gaming: having the hardware or even the license does not mean you can play it in ten years without jumping through some hoops that often involve emulation and/or cracks.

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[–] Moonrise2473@feddit.it 14 points 9 months ago (1 children)

There are games like "Control" that are guaranteed to be dead in 5 years max as they're glorified remote play solutions. The game is playing on someone else's computer and streamed to the switch. So the bill for that computer is paid by new sales like a Ponzi scheme. No more sales = the dev turns off their servers = no more playing

[–] ErwinLottemann@feddit.de 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

control is streamed? for switch or in general?

[–] CorrodedCranium@leminal.space 5 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

It was news to me as well. Here is a Verge article talking about it but it says the following

In order to play the game, you’ll need a Nintendo Account to access cloud service and “a persistent high-speed internet connection to play the game.” (It includes similar technology to Stadia and Luna, but Control’s cloud game will be handled by Ubitus.) Any interruption in the connection will cause it to disconnect in minutes. In order to buy the game, players will be required to use a launcher application to test that their connection can handle its requirements for five minutes. It will also require buying an Access Pass, priced at $39.99.

I really hope it doesn't go the same way as other game streaming services but I wouldn't be surprised.

[–] WarmSoda@lemm.ee 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Nintendo online will go away at some point just like every other online serve they've had.

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[–] Auzy@beehaw.org 12 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (9 children)

Unless it has gotten better, the joy cons on these things always fail. That's 1 reason I never got one

Even if the games run, the joy cons will likely not last long before drifting

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[–] dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 9 months ago (4 children)

Nintendo doesn't have always-online DRM. Some games won't work 20 years from now of course, but your cartridge of BOTW or Pikmin 4 will still work as long as the hardware is in good repair. The Switch is a fine system and should last for years and years of quality game time.

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[–] snownyte@kbin.social 10 points 9 months ago

The short answer is yes, but you'll have to get used to the reality that Nintendo themselves will not be there for you if anything goes wrong down in those 20 years. There will be third-party fixers and a community of people who'll probably have things made for replacements.

You are far better off using a Switch as opposed to a DS. You can emulate more on a Switch than a DS.

[–] kumatomic@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 9 months ago

Even with the best care I wouldn't expect it to last 20 years. The switch is nowhere near a well built machine as the DS was. The controllers will be lucky to last a year. They used arbitration to avoid a lawsuit over how crappy the switch is knowingly built. We've been through three since their inception. That being said they're still a lot of fun. They are trying to integrate the sub more, but it's still avoidable on some games. If you buy one get a hard case or at least a somewhat solid case to help support the console with the controllers connected if you decide to play it that way. The way that they're connected with what destroyed them faster for us because you put too much pressure on the controllers and their connection when holding it. Using a case like this for reinforce the controllers and make them last much longer in my experience.

[–] bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 10 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children)

If you can get your hands on a NDS with an R4 for a decent price, I'd say that will give you way better access to a great library of games. The games are going to be simpler and a bit dated, but there are some gems in there. There's no dependency on online and the games will work until the hardware fails

[–] Aatube@kbin.social 12 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (8 children)

The 3DS is better, and you don't need an R4 card to mod things anymore. You can also mod the switch, though you have to do some stuff every reboot and have to have an older model.

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[–] cinnamonTea@lemmy.ml 8 points 9 months ago

Since the problem of the joycons breaking down has come up a few times, I just want to mention that you can easily couple 8bit-do controllers, or presumably any others, and play with those instead. That's likely to mean they'll be available for a while. Not sure that you can do anything about a DS's buttons breaking

[–] RHOPKINS13@kbin.social 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

By DS, I hope you're talking about a New 3DS, perhaps XL, and not the older DS models. Installing CFW on a New 3DS is pretty easy, and whether you buy your games or pirate them, there's a giant library that could easily keep you occupied for 20+ years. Even if you stay offline. You can also run emulators, ROMs, and other homebrew to get even more use out of it.

If I was to buy a Switch, I'd want the OLED model, but they're difficult to mod. Unless you have good soldering skills, you'll likely have to pay for someone to install a modchip. That being said, the Switch is significantly more powerful than the 3DS. Will eShop be down for Switch in 20 years? Unfortunately, most likely. But with piracy, or games on cartridges, you could easily enjoy your games in 20+ years. The Switch can also handle emulating a lot of games that a 3DS just doesn't have the power to.

Either system would be fine. I'd lean toward the Switch, unless you really want something that can easily fit in your pocket, can be modded without soldering, and should be a cheaper price point. I have collected every console Nintendo has made so far, and they all still work, as long as you take good care of them. The only exception is the Wii U, mine works, but they're known for bricking because of cheap NAND chips, particularly from consoles sold at launch.

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[–] can@sh.itjust.works 7 points 9 months ago

You can have different profiles to play Zelda but for animal. Crossing for example you'll have to share an island.

None of this requires a subscription. Only online games do

[–] Shawdow194@kbin.social 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I think people are forgetting the DS part of the question

DS are very cheap second hand and all the game cartridges work in offline mode natively. If you haven't ever owned a DS before you need to pickup a few 3DS XL models ASAP and catch up on that whole generation of gaming!

As for switch people are right below, if you want longterm playability you might need to emulate on a different device like a steam deck. Some switch games need that online 'phone home' to download the game

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[–] mudle@lemmy.ml 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I already did some searching and found that games can be played offline fine (most of them, some exceptions are there like Multiplayer and Mortal Kombat)

Yes, most games will work offline just fine even with a multiplayer mode. (You just won't be able to access multiplayer.) I believe you can still play Mortal Kombat 11 offline but it locks you out of a lot of content IIRC.

There is something like the paid Nintendo Online Account. I am not planning on having a paid account. How much of the system depends on the account?

The account creation is completely free. You can even make a local account but you won't be able to play games online or use the eshop without making a Nintendo account. The only thing you "need" to pay for is a $20 annual Nintendo Switch Online subscription to play your games online. (Note that all games don't require the Nintendo Switch Online subscription, but most do. This includes all of Nintendo's first party IP's.)

Can I have progression in a game (let’s say: one of the Zelda franchise) and will my Wife and Kids all have their own progression, without having to pay for X accounts?

All of your games will have separate saves with different profiles. Note that all of the accounts you make don't need a Nintendo Account, so you can make a Nintendo Account for yourself (which is free) if you want the features it comes with, and local accounts for your wife and kids, and any game they play will have different saves that won't conflict with your saves. The only exception to this that I know of is Animal Crossing New Horizons. You can have different accounts and players on one Switch but you are limited to only one island per console.

People who own a Switch, let’s take this to extremes, do you feel like in 20 years from now you can still do the same things on your hardware as you can do now? (No multiplayer is fine)

Personally, I'm not sure how long the Switch's hardware will last. If the durability and longevity of Nintendo's other consoles are anything to go by, I'd say it has a fair shot of lasting a while; with the exception of maybe a battery replacement and/or new thermal paste. I have both the OG model and an OLED model, and I can say for certain that the OLED model runs cooler and quieter than my OG model. Even if the Switch's hardware fails I will always have my games and saves backed up on my PC so I can always play my games through an emulator on more powerful hardware.

Edit: I completely forgot to mention joycons. I think these will be the first things that get replaced with any amount of long-term use. I've already gone through 4 pairs on my OG switch because of joycon drift. My OLED is holding up fine though (thankfully), but I think the cheaper option would be to just replace the joycon's thumb-sticks with hall-sense sticks, and they should (in theory) last quite a bit longer.

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[–] buckykat@hexbear.net 6 points 9 months ago

If you're gonna buy a switch look for a used one old enough to be software hackable and pirate all your games

[–] SorteKanin@feddit.dk 6 points 9 months ago

For future reference, consider !buyitforlife@slrpnk.net

[–] Outtatime@sh.itjust.works 6 points 9 months ago

People thought the same thing in 1985. The NES still works.

[–] myliltoehurts@lemm.ee 6 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Very difficult to predict the future, but my bet would be on no (to the in 20years question).

I doubt the hardware would last 20 years and eventually it'll become hard to source parts as the popularity falls off, even if you could repair it yourself. I'm sure anything with an online dependency will not work either, but offline games have a chance.

But the real question is would you want to use the switch in 20 years (or honestly, even today)? There is already a better alternative (steam deck) with a much more open platform with way more capabilities and I believe it can already emulate Nintendo games (although no first hand experience with that)

I have a switch myself and would never recommend it to anyone personally.

[–] wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

My dude, the DS Lite is 20 years old already. There's plenty of video game hardware still kicking 20 years out. The only hardware in the switch that shows any signs of wearing out over time is the analog sticks in the joycons and the rechargable batteries. Both already have replacements available and will likely continue to.

You can also play it docked, with a wired controller, if you somehow can't get generic rechargable battery replacements for it.

Hardware does not break down that fast.

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