Never heard of that extension. Neat idea, but seems open to abuse by bad actors on both sides.
Wish they said more about vetting reports.
this post was submitted on 16 Feb 2024
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Exactly, who determines which one you are?
You do, by deciding whether or not to be transphobic. They give examples on their website
It's really hard to say stuff that would get you flagged unless you're trying
The community does.
This seems like a dystopic tool for exerting social control. Better not step outside the lines, or the algorithm will make you the wrong color. Will this comment itself turn me red?
My understanding is that it's rather strict. You basically have to explicitly be transphobic, saying shit like "you will never be a woman" or "trans is just a fetish." They don't tag someone as harmful unless they actually say harmful things.
Look at the website if you're worried you might get wrongly flagged as transphobic https://shinigami-eyes.github.io/
IDK, I feel like I still feel like I don't agree with this approach. In fact, the entire name about "shinigami eyes" makes me think it's inspired by Death Note, an anime about a guy with a twisted and wrong sense of justice, using shinigami powers to kill people he thinks are bad.
E.g.
- What if someone said things like this, had a conversation, then changed their opinion? Why should they have that struck against them forever?
- Things can be easily misinterpreted, especially online through text. Are they talking about "never being a biological woman"? Having a uterus? Something else? Gender? Maybe they don't understand the difference. A lot of people don't. Mistakes are the first step toward understanding. Maybe they didn't understand something, or maybe they worded something ambiguously. It's easy to do.
I think if we want to change people for the better, than means talking with them, interacting with them, and helping them to change.
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This isn't a moderation tool, it's effectively a communal way to remember usernames of people who've been abusive. Do you have the same worry about people blocking you for your past views? I've said awful, transphobic, homophobic, and racist things under past usernames (part of the reason I switched to Starman was to distance myself from the persona I had 15 years ago), and I'm sure some people rightfully blocked me when they saw those comments. Personally I would rather someone see a red username over a comment now that I'm an ally than not see my comment at all.
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Like I said, they are strict. Unless you are unabashedly transphobic, you won't even accidentally say something that might get you tagged. Kind of like how a white person doesn't accidentally use racial slurs unless they're racist. You shouldn't have to worry about a video of you calling someone the n word going viral because you shouldn't be calling people the n word in the first place.
They are strict now, the slippery slope argument is that it won't stay that way. We've seen mod tools similar to this make mistakes. Twitch, Tumblr, YouTube, Facebook, etc all have algorithm analysis for moderation purposes and all of them have messed up and require additional human review.
Is there a mechanism in place to prevent malicious/fake reports?
Yes. While your overrides are immediately visible to you, changes are included in the publicly visible dataset only if they pass some trustworthiness criteria (including human validation).
I see no reason to believe that the human review criteria is going anywhere
I'd be interested in seeing this kind of setup - where volunteers tag others' speech and account - actually work. So often, nearly all of the time, I've seen it used as political tools in small squabbles; totally inappropriate usage, and it's hard to get those proverbial scarlet letters removed. I can only wish them the best.
I wouldn't trust it because so many people in the trans community tend to fly off the handle at any perceived slight against them. Can't even ask them questions without being accused of acting in bad faith. Especially if the list is created by user submissions, it seems like a really shitty social manipulation app.
Interesting. Saying the truth is harmful sometimes. Would love to have seen Jesus' tags
He wouldn't have gotten tagged because he never said anything transphobic online
the internet is just stuff on various computers, most of which are privately owned - imagine someone complaining that their free speech rights override your right to control your property, because you took down a note stuck to your door. "dystopic tool for social control" dude go meet your neighbors and make some connections that matter instead of worrying about forcing yourself onto as many strangers' screens as possible. so fuckin dramatic.
I am fine with anyone blocking me. I absolutely agree that doesn't somehow 'infringe on my free speech' or whatever. My concern was about self censorship, social pressures, enforcing taboo within communities that would use tools such as this. I think the real victims of labelling 'good' and 'bad' people by color will end up being the members of the very communities that embrace this kind of idea. It does absolutely remind me of an episode of Black Mirror. I think it's a very 'dark path' kind of thing, whether people might find that dramatic or not.
"go meet your neighbors and make some connections that matter" - is pretty condescending. My neighbours are nice. Danish woman and a Polish guy. But then again, I can't see their 'color', so who really knows.
What self-censorship, social pressures, and taboo enforcement? The kind of person who will install this extension would not have done a transphobia if they weren't aware of it
You have a wildly inaccurate idea of what this extension is
It’s a reporting system used by the community. It’s no different from getting banned by being toxic on the internet.
Free speech doesn’t give others the right to put vulnerable people closer to genocide.
It’s a reporting system used by the community.
You know what ? I have absolutely no faith in the community when these arguments are discussed. I've seen too many often people labelled as "transphobic" or "nazist" by someone just because they were not agreeing with something or had different ideas.
It is different, in that this doesn't even ban anyone. It's little different from just a group chat where people tell reach other "hey, this chick is a terf, you might wanna block her"
If you have the ability, please flag me red in your system.
It wouldn't pass moderation, because you haven't said anything transphobic
To anyone who might be moderating a report over me in this comment chain: I am pretty confident that among my many opinions on all sorts of things are some you would label transphobic.
I'm also strongly against what you're doing with this extension. I think therefore I deserve to be labeled as one of the 'bad people'.
Ok? If you want to get flagged, say something awful and transphobic or link to a comment where you did. Nobody is gonna flag you just because you're against the concept of this extension lmao
I won't be impressed by this extension until it shows the user's remaining lifespan too
Well, imagine you don't read terms and conditions and end up with half of your remaining lifespan.
Chances are if someone is marked red they’re likely to be antivaxx.
Whoa. How relevant and interesting to people
ITT people worry their hate speech won't be seen
L take, only because you have people like u/awkwardtheturtle who like to brand anyone who disagrees with them as the public enemy. I haven't read up on this extension in a couple years, but last I checked there was no safeguard from one user just going in and falsely flagging accounts. If they have something in place to reasonably prevent this, then my point might be mute. But if they don't, then fuck em.
Seems like you didn't really read up on it considering the website says
Is there a mechanism in place to prevent malicious/fake reports?
Yes. While your overrides are immediately visible to you, changes are included in the publicly visible dataset only if they pass some trustworthiness criteria (including human validation).
Yeah free speech absolutists suck! Try criticizing their right wing ideas and watch them become hypocritical.
Hate speech needs to be punished because it is the first step of dehumanization.
i don't think it even rises to the bar of a free speech issue, honestly. it's akin to throwing a tantrum because someone took your jerkass note off the corkboard, it was a courtesy to let it stay there in the first place.
So much negativity in these comments.
Having read the guidelines, I think they're pretty reasonable.
I'm sure it's not perfect, but this could help people. A trans relative of mine has been mistreated by specific doctors, and being able to signal to others to stay away from these person could really help others.
Right now, the worst that can happen is that someone is wrongly flagged and a small minority of people dislike them, but the good it can do is greater.
A trans relative of mine has been mistreated by specific doctors, and being able to signal to others to stay away from these person could really help others.
I am sure that you understand that this sentence without any additional context means nothing.
I thought it was fairly clear, but I'll elaborate.
If a trans person is discriminated against by their doctor, then having a mechanism to warn other trans people away from that doctor so they don't waste their time or go through unpleasant experiences would be useful.
Same can be said of therapists etc.
To be honest we should probably have a way of publicly rating medical professionals in general, regardless of whether you are trans or not, but trans people probably need it more than the average person.
If a trans person is discriminated against by their doctor, then having a mechanism to warn other trans people away from that doctor so they don’t waste their time or go through unpleasant experiences would be useful.
Ok, I will be brutally explicit: this person think having been mistreated because he is a biological male thinking to be a woman and the doctor said that he cannot menstruate (or flipping the sides she is a biological woman thinking to be a man and was said she cannot have prostate cancer) or because the doctor mistreated him since the doctor is an asshole and/or did big and clear medical mistakes ?
Because I imagine that you understand that in the first case, the problem is not the doctor saying a truth while in the second case the doctor should be banned from the profession in any case because this doctor is a danger to everyone not only your trans relative.
To be honest we should probably have a way of publicly rating medical professionals in general, regardless of whether you are trans or not,
Here I agree 1000% with you, a bad doctor is a bad doctor irregardless who the patient is.
I'll get back to you on that, but just to be clear transphobia on a medical level is more about gaslighting trans people and / or denying them the treatment they need.
The doctor in question could also campaign against allowing trans rights, spread misinformation or personally deny them a referral to get the treatment they need.
Wait times for trans-specific procedures can be astronomical compared to other procedures in the same country. Think years in wait time.
I don't think most trans people complain about doctors mentioning what genitals or conditions they may have in 1-1 conversations.
All of that said, I am not trans myself, so I'm not the right person to ask. It's best to ask trans people themselves about their experiences in the healthcare industry, but they have unique challenges.
I’ll get back to you on that, but just to be clear transphobia on a medical level is more about gaslighting trans people and / or denying them the treatment they need.
Wait, if a doctor refuse a legitimate treatment to a person he must be banned from the profession. That the person who had the treatment refused is a trans is completely irrelevant.
The doctor in question could also campaign against allowing trans rights, spread misinformation
I think that what a doctor does in its free time is somewhat irrelevant as long as it do not interfere with his job, but I see your point.
or personally deny them a referral to get the treatment they need.
Then this doctor is a danger to everyone, trans or not, and need to be banned from the profession.
Wait times for trans-specific procedures can be astronomical compared to other procedures in the same country. Think years in wait time.
If the trans-specific procedures is a life-saving one, then it is wrong on so many level, else maybe it is just a problem of resource allocation.
All of that said, I am not trans myself, so I’m not the right person to ask. It’s best to ask trans people themselves about their experiences in the healthcare industry, but they have unique challenges.
Me neither, I simply think that a trans is just another human being, just with a different set of problems, and must be treated this way. As long as trans don't try to impose me their ideas I simply think live and let live.