this post was submitted on 12 Dec 2025
291 points (99.0% liked)

Games

45101 readers
1091 users here now

Welcome to the largest gaming community on Lemmy! Discussion for all kinds of games. Video games, tabletop games, card games etc.

Rules

1. Submissions have to be related to games

Video games, tabletop, or otherwise. Posts not related to games will be deleted.

This community is focused on games, of all kinds. Any news item or discussion should be related to gaming in some way.

2. No bigotry or harassment, be civil

No bigotry, hardline stance. Try not to get too heated when entering into a discussion or debate.

We are here to talk and discuss about one of our passions, not fight or be exposed to hate. Posts or responses that are hateful will be deleted to keep the atmosphere good. If repeatedly violated, not only will the comment be deleted but a ban will be handed out as well. We judge each case individually.

3. No excessive self-promotion

Try to keep it to 10% self-promotion / 90% other stuff in your post history.

This is to prevent people from posting for the sole purpose of promoting their own website or social media account.

4. Stay on-topic; no memes, funny videos, giveaways, reposts, or low-effort posts

This community is mostly for discussion and news. Remember to search for the thing you're submitting before posting to see if it's already been posted.

We want to keep the quality of posts high. Therefore, memes, funny videos, low-effort posts and reposts are not allowed. We prohibit giveaways because we cannot be sure that the person holding the giveaway will actually do what they promise.

5. Mark Spoilers and NSFW

Make sure to mark your stuff or it may be removed.

No one wants to be spoiled. Therefore, always mark spoilers. Similarly mark NSFW, in case anyone is browsing in a public space or at work.

6. No linking to piracy

Don't share it here, there are other places to find it. Discussion of piracy is fine.

We don't want us moderators or the admins of lemmy.world to get in trouble for linking to piracy. Therefore, any link to piracy will be removed. Discussion of it is of course allowed.

Authorized Regular Threads

Related communities

PM a mod to add your own

Video games

Generic

Help and suggestions

By platform

By type

By games

Language specific

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] the_riviera_kid@lemmy.world 100 points 1 month ago (3 children)

"game" is a big stretch for a lot of the asset flip or AI trash that is currently on steam.

[–] tordenflesk@lemmy.world 19 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Anyone doing a uBlock for Steam?

[–] fartsparkles@lemmy.world 13 points 1 month ago

Steamdb lets you filter out games with less than x reviews which I’ve made liberal use of over the years.

[–] flameleaf@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago

Augmented Steam has a ton of useful features, including better filters

[–] I_Jedi@lemmy.today 2 points 1 month ago

I personally stick to searching by specific tags to find the hidden good stuff.

[–] paultimate14@lemmy.world 12 points 1 month ago (1 children)

AI has slop is a problem, and Shovelware has been a problem for decades, basically as long as videogames have existed.

However, a LOT of these cheap and obscure games on steam have more innocuous explanations, with that explanation often being "the dev doesn't really care about making money". Perception, for example, is a student project that was released for free and I wouldn't pay much for anyways, but it was a fun way to spend a couple of hours.

Or when I was in a band, one of the other members was a developer by trade who, as a hobby, connects with a couple of his other friends to develop game that he released on steam. I recorded and produced an EP for that band and we released it for free and we certainly spent more money buying drinks at the bars we played than we were ever paid for playing. I think his game was similar: they charged money for it to cover some of their costs, but he certainly never left his day job.

Or Mind Over Magnet, which was the project of the YouTuber GamerMakersToolkit. The whole thing was a multi-year project where the guy made videos covering the game development process and culminated in the release of the game. The actual business model was based on the video content, while the game itself was just a side piece that was probably profitable, but I doubt made enough profit for him to survive on for years.

[–] TonyOstrich@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago

The developer of Mind Over Magnet did a post mortem video where he covered among other things how much of gross he kept after paying the artists he hired, paid for things like assets, and after taxes, and it was about 43%. A very lazy search yielded somewhere around $300k in total sales on Steam, meaning he took home $129k. So yeah, not a bad chunk of change, but it's not exactly changing social class or long term working conditions.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] dukemirage@lemmy.world 69 points 1 month ago (2 children)

That's actually more than I thought. I thought about 80% fall into complete oblivion.

[–] Dojan@pawb.social 15 points 1 month ago (1 children)

This was my initial reaction too. I am making the assumption that less than ten still means not zero.

I rarely leave reviews so I’m surprised that 50% of all releases even see a single one.

[–] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 11 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

10 reviews means like 500-1000 sales. The vast majority of people dont leave reviews. Not much, especially for low priced games, but also not nothing. As long as you enjoyed the game making process and didnt invest anything except for time its not really an issue.

[–] jaaake@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

10 reviews means the developer has some combination of the following:

  • friends/family/classmates
  • developers on the actual game
  • multiple Steam accounts with the same owner

10 is essentially 0 and cannot be extrapolated into sales.

I agree that if game development is a hobby and not a career, this isn't a problem for those developers.

I also submit that if you are attempting to make money from your efforts and don't yet have a following, and can't afford a marketing budget, and have actually made something unique, interesting, or otherwise worthwhile, it is more difficult to stand out in a market whose signal to noise ratio is continuously and exponentially growing noisier.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] eleijeep@piefed.social 41 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I think this statistic would be more interesting if it filtered out all of the blatant cash-grab, asset-flip, AI generated shit that makes up a large portion of new releases.

Is it 19,000 releases with 10,000 actual sincere efforts at making a game, or 19,000 releases with 1,000 actual games.

And what's the average number of reviews for actual games versus garbage?

[–] anyhow2503@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I don't think that's trivial to filter.

[–] eleijeep@piefed.social 7 points 1 month ago

I don't disagree. It would require manual labelling by a group of people with enough patience and understanding of gaming to be able to reliably label ~60 new games every day. I'd have thought that the Steam community was large enough to achieve this though.

[–] mohab@piefed.social 28 points 1 month ago (5 children)

How often do people leave reviews? I rarely see a profile with +100 reviews.

I only leave reviews after 100% completion or a lot of time (hundreds of hours) in case of fighting games where sometimes 100% is ridiculously difficult to attain (oh hi, Plus R)

I think the average time between my picking up a game and leaving a review is like 3~12 months. Definitely even more if I'm not vibing with the game.

[–] Sabata11792@ani.social 16 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I'll click the thumbs up button then get intimidated by the text box that pops up. I'm not mentally prepared to give out a useful review.

[–] mohab@piefed.social 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Same. I'm often in the process of breaking down why I like/dislike the game, what works about it, and what doesn't as I'm playing. I can't give honest feedback with incomplete thoughts.

[–] pipe01@programming.dev 3 points 1 month ago

I just say "I like it", it's not very helpful but at least it counts for the rating

[–] justdaveisfine@piefed.social 9 points 1 month ago

As I recall, its around 5%-20% of players leave a review, usually closer to 5% unless something about the game makes people want to talk about it, for both good and bad.

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 6 points 1 month ago

I leave reviews when the game does something exceptional (good or bad). Or sometimes when steam nags me to leave a review.

It's funny: if you leave a negative review and keep playing it asks you if you want to change your review.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 26 points 1 month ago (2 children)

There's no downside for consumers, sucks if you are making art for an oversaturated market.

But that's why artists should get a UBI

[–] SkyezOpen@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

When I am supreme overlord, artists will get free food and housing. But like, it's gonna suck really bad because tortured artists make the best art.

[–] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago (2 children)

We can just waterboard them

[–] SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 1 month ago

That will be the only access to drinking water

[–] Rcklsabndn@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago

: warms up netti pot:

I am immune to your punishment.

[–] PearOfJudes@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 month ago (3 children)

No not UBI, but universal necessities to live. ie food water electricity housing healthcare and for all people not just artists.

UBI is a bandaid solution where money is taken from the government and given to corporations when governments should supply those necessities itself.

[–] krooklochurm@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 month ago

Uni has nothing to do with corporations though?

It's everyone getting enough money to live comfortably

[–] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago

Money can be exchanged for needs.

It works fine to distribute resources.

[–] Rcklsabndn@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I think it's more efficient if people get a few hundred dollar boost every week to spend when and wherever they please, rather then stand in line and receive whatever obtuse handout the government has decided they deserve.

[–] PearOfJudes@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 month ago

For Literally everything but food the government can supply everything without standing in line. You are right though, I believe SNAP in America is a largely efficient organisation that takes an already convenient system of food distribution and allows the person to buy things at a grocery store like everybody else. I guess in society it's also important that SNAP or other beneficiaries feel normal as well.

[–] stupidcasey@lemmy.world 23 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Oh, no! Competition in the games industry causing the slop to fall to the bottom! We better ban steam immediately put everything behind a walled guardian and have "AAA" companies be the only ones allowed to publish! What if the plebs start making money? Then what?

[–] chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago

Slop falls to the bottom but I bet a lot of hidden gems do too. The greater volume of games coming out, the harder it’ll be for individual developers to get recognized!

Old school indie developer Jeff Vogel has a whole talk about how difficult it is.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Agent_Karyo@piefed.world 20 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I don't know if it's true or not, but I've heard a rough proxy for modest success "above breakeven" in the indie sphere is 1,000+ reviews.

The chart doesn't break out the 1,000+ review count band, but it looks like under 5% of the 19,000 games released in 2025 on Steam were even able to go above 500 review count.

The 1,000+ review count band as a measure of success does make sense in a back of the napkin kind of way.

Assuming 5% of buyers leave a review, that would be 20,000 in sales. At a net unit revenue of $10 (after Steam's cut and the payment processor), that would be $200 K net revenue.

[–] justdaveisfine@piefed.social 13 points 1 month ago (1 children)

An unfortunate 'secret' for most indie titles is that the vast majority of their sales are on discount, usually during launch or one of the big week long sales. Not a lot of people buy indie games at full sticker price unless its a pretty high quality title.

So your $200K net revenue would be at absolute max, but is realistically ~50-80% of that.

[–] Agent_Karyo@piefed.world 3 points 1 month ago

That's fair. A blended net revenue per unit figure of $10 might actually be high.

[–] Passerby6497@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago

Assuming 5% of buyers leave a review, that would be 20,000 in sales. At a net unit revenue of $10 (after Steam's cut and the payment processor), that would be $200 K net revenue.

A unit revenue of $10 means your product is going for ~15 base price. I don't know about you, but I rarely buy stuff above $10 anymore. So like the other guy said, you're looking at like half of that based on people buying during sales.

[–] reksas@sopuli.xyz 19 points 1 month ago (6 children)

big part of the ones with almost no reviews are such garbage its insulting to even call them games. But i bet there are some gems buried in there too.

[–] Katana314@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago

Something I tried to do earlier to help with it, in this very channel, was a "Downvote any game you've heard of before" thread. It was a nice exercise to help people post odd games no one had heard of.

[–] lb_o@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

My game Drone Perspective is one of those. Such a good game, but I am a bit afraid that I can't turn it around.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (4 replies)
[–] Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Other people have mentioned removing asset flips and AI slop. I'm wondering what this dataset looks like if you remove all of the shitty NSFW games that get shoveled out en masse.

[–] Tearcell@mastodon.gamedev.place 16 points 1 month ago (1 children)

@Assassassin @Agent_Karyo

Our first game barely got past 10 reviews in a 2 years, despite real original assets etc. It just didn't click with people. While 'filtering out the slop' will improve the numbers, I'm sure there are many games in a similar boat as ours.

[–] Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 month ago

As someone that regularly goes through new releases, I really wish there was a way to filter out all of the slop so that I even see games like yours. I'm sure I miss games I'd enjoy all the time due to the deluge of garbage, it's a shame.

[–] commander@lemmy.world 12 points 1 month ago

One of those things people waste energy getting concerned about. Better than highly stringent curation that has no chance in being representative of all different taste/demographics. It's a more level playing field. Happened to music and books. Then video/movies. Video games followed quickly after. Better than the days of payments for every patch you push through Xbox live/PSN. Better than needing to get 35mm prints and access to theaters

[–] demizerone@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

Shit's turning into amazon. Lol.

[–] atrielienz@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Haven't you heard. Indie games have to launch on steam or they fail miserably.

Seriously though. This is why I roll my eyes at people who claim steam makes it breaks these games. Humble bundle? Runs sales events where these games get showcased. Itch.io's whole schtick is selling indie games.

It's nice that Valve gives studios a platform to help market their games and all that, and yes, by dint of being one of the largest gaming sale platforms out there launching on steam helps their chances. But most of them weren't ever gonna reach the success of AAA titles regardless and we pretend that that's Valve's fault for reasons I have never understood.

It's the same problem with each of the online stores including the Nintendo E-Shop. Your game still has to be decent and be marketed to the people who want to play it.

Additionally they have to have time to play it. Which means you're fighting every other game in the category in order to claim each players time.

There's a whole lot to making and marketing a successful game at literally every level and not every studio can be a Team Cherry.

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 9 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Additionally they have to have time to play it.

And money to buy it! Wages are down. I was unemployed for a while so I just didn't buy any games (or much else)

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Indie games have to launch on steam or they fail miserably. Seriously though. This is why I roll my eyes at people who claim steam makes it breaks these games.

Those two things aren't opposed though. Launching on Steam doesn't guarantee success, but I believe what they're claiming is that not launching on Steam more or less guarantees its failure.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›