this post was submitted on 11 Apr 2024
936 points (97.9% liked)
Technology
59534 readers
3209 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
There are indeed good aspects to this product.
But I won't join the "Fairphone good" circle jerk and give them the free publicity, because just like Apple and Samsung, they removed the headphone jack from their phones soon before the launch of these headphones, in other words, artificially creating the problem and need to sell you their expensive solution.
You don't get to ride the "we are pro customer!" free publicity train while also wanting to be the next Apple.
I understand people's desire for a headphone port, but I really don't understand the hate for devices that don't have one. It would be one thing if they vendor-locked Bluetooth headphones so you had to use theirs, but it really just seems like a common sense move in a world where Bluetooth reigns supreme.
As long as a USB-C adapter still provides the same functionality, I really don't see anyone's choices being taken away. If it is one less physical port on the device that helps streamline the hardware, I'm all for it too.
And if it is a dealbreaker, you don't have to buy a fairphone.
The problem is that there are fewer and fewer options with a headphone jack. My current phone has one and I use it all the time.
Bluetooth sucks for a variety of reasons, such as:
I also like using bluetooth headphones sometimes, but having an option is good, and I don't want to bring a dongle around everywhere.
Most Bluetooth headphones are encrypted with a key shared only by the headphones and the host device. Not sure why you think they aren't private. Maybe really cheap or really old headphones might not be so secure, but the vast majority of Bluetooth headphones in use today absolutely are.
Charging and audio quality are legitimate concerns, but again, you still have a headphone port... It's just part of the USB-C port on the bottom of your phone. A $5 adapter completely absolves you of having to use Bluetooth.
I really don't see how needing an adapter is a big enough deal to care about the way people here seem to.
They broadcast the ID and I think type of device. Yeah, the data sent between the devices is encrypted, but that's not really an improvement over wired headphones since the signal is privacy by virtue of not being broadcast everywhere.
It's not the price that's the issue, but the convenience. I can't change my phone while using the adapter, and I have to bring it along wherever I go. Why should I need an adapter for something that used to come standard?
What do I gain from not having a headphone jack? A slightly thinner phone due to slightly more space for the battery? My current phone has a headphone jack, and it's no bigger than any other phone, and it has a larger battery than most. Better water resistance? I've never lost a phone due to water.
So I'll flip it around, why do you not want a headphone jack? What about a micro-SD card?
My next phone will probably not have a headphone jack, and I'm annoyed just thinking about it.
The same reason you needed a new charging cable every time the USB standard changes: because technology standards change over time.
If anything, audio adapters have been a thing for decades longer than cell phones have existed. This is not a new development at all.
My phone has an completely excessive 512GB of storage, and I can use USB drives (including micro SD adapters) if I really want to save something to external storage.
Headphone jacks are still ubiquitous, work well, and aren't overly large. There's also not really a significant downside vs other ports. USB-C beats previous ports because it's better:
Moving to USB-C gives you:
Basically, the only downside is having to buy more cables (and the annoying difference between cable capabilities), and a little higher cost to include it in a product.
With the headphone jack, there's really no objectively superior alternative. USB-C requires a dongle or USB-C specific headphones, and there's not really a change to audio quality. If you want to charge at the same time (like you showed), you need an awkward dongle with half that'll go unused most of the time. Yeah, it works, but it's a solution to an artificial problem. They could just include an audio jack instead...
Ok, and how much did that built-in storage cost you? Would you have preferred a smaller amount of storage if it meant lower cost, and have the option to expand with a micro-SD card? With Apple, you'd pay $100 to bump to 256GB and $200 more to bump to 512GB. So you're paying $300 to go from 128GB to 512GB. I could buy a fast, 512GB microsd card for $55 (or slower drives for $35).
And what happens if you switch devices? Let's say you decide to go Android, now you need to figure out how to get your stuff from one phone to the other. With a micro-SD card, you just move the card. Or if someone wants to get a copy of photos you took, just copy to a micro-SD card and give it to them.
If you don't want to use it, you don't need to, but micro-SD ports are small (often paired with the SIM slot) and inexpensive.
Having those convenience ports doesn't cost you anything and you can ignore them if you want. So I really don't see a downside to manufacturers keeping them, and it just gives users flexibility. I actually never used the SD slot on my old phone, but I was glad it was there. I would've used it if my phone lasted longer than 3-ish years before running out of software updates.
If someone comes up with a better alternative to SD cards or headphone jacks, sure, replace them. But current phones merely lost functionality. Maybe they could have a version w/o the port that has a bit more battery, that would be a good compromise for losing a port you may not want. But just eliminating it while it's still popular is stupid.
in response to bluetooth being private: https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=bluetooth
also the adapters get lost and break before the headphones usually do (and cost about as much as a cheap pair of headphones)
Honestly most of these points don't make a whole lot sense, yet these are the arguments I see every time wireless ear buds pop up in any conversation. Phones by nature are not private, and honestly, who is trying to intercept Bluetooth close to you anyways? Majority of what they would likely get is "oh another person listening to music or tiktok". I haven't charged my 3 year old $50 Bluetooth buds in weeks, and they are still sitting at great battery health. Proper research and care goes a long way, though the option to have replacement batteries is def a plus. And if you're going on long road trips, just pack an adapter and wired headphones if you're that conscious. What are you doing with your phone that you need top-tier audio quality on the go? Just seems like a very very niche market.
I jut want to address the point with the battery.
To be fair, the charging cases (if we talk about earbuds) are a good idea.
That said, with wired headphones I need to charge one device less, don't have to worry about battery care (no matter how much effort you consider this, it's zero with wired) and it's no factor for the longevity of the device.
Also this:
So I need another pair of headphones and an apdapter vs just one pair of headphones?
I honestly, never really put any extra energy into caring for my battery, it just seems to be fine. When I see it gets low, I just have the reaction to throw it on a charger, and leave it plugged in for a bit, then I'm good for a while. Wired are good backups, yes, but I don't think in this day and age, they are the perfect solution, just the same that wireless are not either. But for my runs to the grocery store, the gym, or going for a hike. I'd rather not have a cable constantly getting in my way, and being able to freely hold and move my phone around with no issue. Of course that would be my use case, possibly making it subjective, but I imagine a lot of common users are pretty much about the same.
On the "needing to have another pair of headphones", I mean why not? I don't know how many wired earbuds, over the ears, and such I had growing up. They weren't high end, or even mid-tier quality, but you could find them pretty easily. Just as easily as you can find them now. Not saying "take two different sets of headphones" with you whenever you go on a trip. That's dumb, you'd have a higher chance of losing something that way. Just take the wired ones, with an adapter because that makes sense for a long trip where you want to conserve battery life and you're just sitting in a car anyway. Also those adapters are pretty tight fitting, I leave mine just stuck to the headphone cable.
I'd also think if you cared about your audio equipment that much, you would probably be probably be able to keep track of a little adapter pretty easily.
Bluetooth data is encrypted, that's not what I'm worried about. I'm more concerned about tracking.
Bluetooth transmits a unique ID, which can be picked up by any curious individual. That's pretty much how "Find my Droid" and "Find my iPhone" work, and providing even more devices to track isn't great. I can turn off the Bluetooth in my phone and use wired headphones to avoid it, and removing the jack makes that more annoying.
Why not? I often listen to music or whatever when exercising, riding transit, or doing yardwork. Having good sounding headphones is really nice.
Audio jacks cost almost nothing, and I can buy them for <$1 each from Amazon, less if I buy in bulk. So it's not a cost savings, and they're not particularly big, so why do they need to remove it?
Even if you don't care about privacy or audio quality, it's just really convenient to be able to use any cheap earbuds if you lose your nicer pair when on vacation or whatever. Why not have the option? Why force people to use an adapter?
I also have Bluetooth headphones (bone conduction for listening to audiobooks on my bike), yet I still prefer the wired headphones around the house, on walks, and pretty much everywhere else.
I think the removal is less so the conspiracy, and more so just spacing on the board or even just pure neglect at this point, but I could be wrong. But I'm good with every other point you threw up there. The tracking bit does make sense too, just no one has ever mentioned it. Though I still don't think anyone is hunting me personally lol. I understand having peace of mind is also good too, and honestly, should not be a luxury like it feels these days.
Yeah, I'm not being hunted either and probably never will be, but privacy is really important to me and just knowing that it's technically possible without even all that much work just really bothers me. I'm already not a fan of the only options for a phone OS being from Google and Apple, so removing the headphone jack just further reminds me that I'm not in control of my phone.
I would understand if it was totally obsolete, like the old FireWire port on computers or a barrel power jack now that USB-C is a thing, but imo an adapter isn't a replacement since it requires having and bringing an extra thing along.
And I don't think every phone needs to have it, and it's totally fine to have options with and without the jack. The cost difference between the two would be minimal, and in my case, I'd rather have a headphone jack than a third or fourth camera (I honestly rarely use my camera, but I use headphones a lot).
Get an USB c dongle and leave it on the cord then... I too wish we still had jacks, but that battle's lost, and attacking the only somewhat conscientious phone manufacturer for following trends set by bigger companies is myopic. They do what they must to compete, it's not like they're drowning in money.
Even USB-C dongles suck.
There are two types: ones that passes through the analog audio signal from the phone's internal DAC, and ones that have a built in DAC and pretty much acts as external USB sound card. You need to know which type your phone supports and which type it is you're buying.
If it's the type that has a built-in DAC (which I think is the most common but I might be wrong) they are fury-inducing absolute monstrous pains in the ass if there's the slightest glitch in the USB connection. Because it's like unplugging the audio device. Playback just stops for seemingly no reason and it doesn't resume once the connection is good again.
My solution is wired headphones plugged in to a small BT receiver I keep in my pocket. That way I get both an annoying cable and shitty audio quality lol.
For me the slight lag is the worst, I can stand charging them and cant notice the lower audio quality but the lag is so annoying, For music they are good, bot not for things you interact with
it's partially because we are running out of options that have the headphone jack, and the only reason to remove them is to boost sales of more expensive bluetooth sets. Bluetooth really doesn't reign supreme yet because wired headphones are still more convenient, cheaper to produce, and last longer than their bluetooth counterparts. the only reason it's so common is because it keeps getting removed from phones so people don't have a choice in the matter.
I think they mean "reign supreme" in the sense that, given the choice, most people these days would choose the bluetooth anyways.
Its just so nice to not have a cord...
I’m with you. The hate has always seemed a bit like a first world problem.
I used up all my hate when Apple did it. I still think Apple lied about their reasoning (waterproofing and space), which pisses me off more than the other complaints, many of which I also agree with. (some of those reasons were even more valid when considering the overall state of the tech at the time)
However, at this point a big portion of the market has adjusted and accepted (to varying degrees), and that first change is so far in the past that I don't know that I can muster up a lot of hate for mfrs who are taking away headphone jacks today when instead of upending the market they are following market trends.
Having said that, I'd be willing to bet that a larger than typical percentage of Fairphone purchasers would really like to have a headphone jack.
edit - purchasers not purchases
I like to have the choice. And I choose not having to buy another device.
We must think of different aspects then.
Mostly just because it's kind of seen as a higher profile example of mobile phone manufacturers colluding and creating totally unnecessary changes in the market because they're incapable of actual innovation. The reason people are mad, basically, is because there was no reason to remove the headphone jack. I haven't seen a reasonable argument for it's removal, really, or the removal of most of the other used-to-be-standard features on smartphones.
Does that include fairphone's explanation for the removal of the headphone jack? Cause to me it sounds reasonable. It could be bs, sure, but I don't think it is.
The fairphone 4 doesn't have a jack and its from 2021.
Yes and they sold shitty generic bluetooth earbuds that they pulled from the market a year and a half later with 0 support when they were almost ready to launch their Bluetooth headphones.
I bought the Fairphone 5 and yeah, I miss not having the jack and I see no reason to take it out
They explain very thoroughly on their website why they did it:
https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/9836188988049-Audio-Jack-3-5mm
Yep, same excuses as Apple.
Analogue connector too old, too big, hard to make modular. All proven false by a multitude of other devices.
It might be false, but I think the real reason is that very few people care about a jackstick... I care, but I'm the only one I know, and I only ever hear a small group of people online talk about it being a big deal. In the end I don't think too badly about that specific decision from any phone manufacturer.
Heck, I don't even care about having an audio jack as long as there are two USB-C ports. I'm a down for a unified connector. There just needs to be enough ports for it.
I might be on board with this, especially how simple and reliable the USB-C analog audio system is supposed to be. And my ongoing problem with Bluetooth is just how amazed I am at how slow/unreliable it is to both pair and to reconnect on a slew of different (modern!) hardware.
But it's funny. I have a tablet with 2 USB-C ports. I have USB-C to audio adapters that I've used with it for a while.
Recent trip, I forgot the adapters. So I picked up a pack of adapters at the local Best Buy. Didn't work! Tablet behaved as if they simply weren't plugged in. Rebooted, tried stuff, then bought a different brand of them. Same problem! Got home, original ones I had worked fine.
I don't care if it's the tablet's fault, or the adapters, or what. I've never, ever, ever had to worry about stuff like this with 3.5mm jack on any device. Ever. That's the reason it's worth it to me (plus not having to worry about charging, or various other complications with wireless. Like when enabling Bluetooth headphones on my last laptop crushed wifi performance. Or makes my good ol' Steam Link start to freak out with my 8bitdo, or...)
I’ve had issue with very worn out 3.5mm adapters before! Like: I was on an intercontinental flight earlier this week and my cable barely held in the worn out port of the plane. I agree that there are fewer issues with software refusing to work, but the hardware-connection can be quite sucky on them too.
I’d prefer that to the jack tbh. I’ve been converted to prefer digital wired audio
I'd be more okay with it if that weren't for the fact that there can still be compatibility issues when before there weren't.
In my case, lots of people I know care about it. And I definitely do.
But these are just anecdotes, and I haven't seen real data.
I'm guessing the majority of people would prefer to have it, but don't care enough that it's a major factor for their phone. And the number that care at all continues to shrink. But we're both just guessing.
This is just one search result but it's showing 326 million phones shipped in just Q4 of last year. How many of those new phones do you think shipped with headphone jacks?
https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS51776424
There's plenty of industry analysis out there that, while not perfect, is data showing that new phone sales have not been hampered by the removal of the headphone jack.
I'm rocking a Pixel 5a which does still have it and I do get a warm and fuzzy in my nerd brain by having it there. If I'm honest though, I used it maybe twice in the last year.
Yeah, same here. It's a pretty specific demand when bluetooth headphones have become really good and actually have a lot of advantages compared to wired ones. Also there is always the option to use a USB C dongle so it's really not that big of a deal.
I don't need another hole in my phone that does nothing but collect debris.
So - takes up too much space, is the main reason :)
I don't care, still worth it to me. As long as I have the option, any phone I buy (including the one I bought last year) will have a 3.5mm jack.
I "upgraded" to a new Pixel last year because I thought the battery on my old 4A was getting wonky (and I have not had good luck with doing battery replacements). At the time, I did not know (enough) about the Fairphone, and I could not find a new Pixel with an audio jack (maybe I didn't look hard enough?).
I'd like to go back to having a jack. I do have one scenario where I want to use well-fitting BT buds, but I can do that on any phone. I want wired buds that I don't have to charge, can switch between devices in 0.5 second, without interacting with any software, and don't have misbehaving touch controls that trigger when I brush my long hair back behind my ear(s) or shoulder(s). In fact, I still have a set of completely dumb buds that I use for my work laptop that I'd love to be able to use with my phone -- don't need noise cancelling or controls of any kind. I really hope that I can find a phone with a jack next time I do an upgrade. I don't care if it is thicker, I'm gonna stick on Otterbox (or similar) on it anyway.
I was also concerned about security, but full-power BT is fairly secure now. No one can "drive-by" and monitor or replace the audio; they have to get you during "initial" pairing.
I hated that too at the time, but I have to admit, that in practice this has not really turned into an issue basically ever: My headphones and earbuds are bluetooth anyways and I did get a usb-c to headphone adapter that I store with my earphone’s backup audio cable for the very rare case that I need it (I can count on one hand the instances for when that happened). And in those very few cases I wasn’t about to charge my phone anyways, which is the one argument for why you might want both.
So, I don’t know, maybe it really is time to move on. I will defnitely say that I’m not a big fan of analog cables, so maybe a more general move to USB-C for audio might be the right way to go in the first place?
Okay, but my phone has a jack and absolutely dog water sound quality. Because it has a jack it does not support the USB DAC which I use on my desktop.
Worst part is, the whole USB DAC is $12 including shipping and it has USB connector and 3.5mm, and an amp. They cheaped out on this part not only on the phone, but also on the motherboard. On my computer the amp is way too weak to drive my around ear headphones.
So if it's a crap one maybe they shouldn't even include it, since I'll have to use a USB DAC to get perfectly transparent sound. The only good one I own is on my budget Acer Aspire laptop.
LG phones used to come with a DAC. I still use mine as an MP3 player even though it's not my main phone.
All phones with a 3.5mm audio jack have a DAC. You can't play digital audio without one somewhere along the chain and all audio going through a phone or PC is digital unless you're picking up a radio signal or some other analog signal that's being fed directly to the audio jack.
You probably mean it comes with a good DAC, since they aren't all created equal.
A bit of a tangent, but I believe that's why people considered Macs better for audio stuff, they probably used a better DAC than most motherboards come with or might have just added that pathway in general back when it wasn't standard on most PC motherboards and your had to use a sound card if you wanted better audio than the PC speaker which was more of a synthesizer. They'd take a pitch and generate an analog wave at that frequency while a DAC uses a sample rate and series of amplitudes at that frequency to generate rich sound.
My current phone is an LG G8 and I have no idea what I'm going to replace it with when it finally dies. I'm half considering seeing if one of the local repair shops can replace the battery on it because that's what's starting to go.
Honestly, I blame LG's marketing team on the failure of their phone department. Hardly anyone knew about the built in DAC, and they should have been pushing that hard to the audiophiles.