this post was submitted on 28 Oct 2024
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Piracy: ꜱᴀɪʟ ᴛʜᴇ ʜɪɢʜ ꜱᴇᴀꜱ

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75% of the anti-piracy discussions I see rarely blame companies like Nintendo or Disney and always try to talk about how piracy is immoral, and you should feel "dirty" for doing it. My question is why do people seem to hate those who pirate more than the bad practices of mega-corporations or the fact that they don't want to preserve their media?

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[–] quirzle@programming.dev 89 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

I blame the "piracy is stealing" advertising/propaganda. It was super effective, given that we all remember it.

Editing to add one of my favorite videos in the other direction, Copying is Not Theft.

[–] odium@programming.dev 9 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

I don't remember ever seeing such an advertisement in my life.

[–] Boomkop3@reddthat.com 30 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

YOU WOULDN'T DOWNLOAD A CAR

[–] Kyatto@leminal.space 21 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)
[–] Telorand@reddthat.com 11 points 3 weeks ago

In this day, I'm pretty sure the entirety of the middle class and below would if they could.

[–] bountygiver@lemmy.ml 7 points 3 weeks ago

and then download a house

[–] quirzle@programming.dev 9 points 3 weeks ago

That "you wouldn't download a car" became the meme while the ad itself said "you wouldn't steal a car" drives home exactly how effective these ads were at conflating the two.

[–] xep@fedia.io 8 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

NOT ONLY WOULD I DOWNLOAD A CAR, I WOULD THEN WORK ON A WAY TO LET EVERYONE DOWNLOAD CARS

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[–] quirzle@programming.dev 12 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

You've never seen this? Never heard "home taping is killing music" or "don't copy that floppy"?

[–] odium@programming.dev 6 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

No to all of those. I don't remember ever seeing a floppy. Oldest media formats I remember using are cds and cassettes. And that was in elementary school.

ig the piracy is theft advertising was more of a 90s thing that died down in the 2000s if those are your examples?

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[–] adelita2938@lemmy.dbzer0.com 71 points 3 weeks ago

Propaganda works.

The put out a lot of propaganda saying that copying files is stealing. They point to intellectual property rights laws as if that means intellectual property is justified because of the existence of laws.

[–] theskyisfalling@lemmy.dbzer0.com 64 points 3 weeks ago (10 children)

Ignorant idiots who can't think for themselves will always follow the narrative that is forced down their throat.

See also "The war on drugs". The majority of the people who will demonise you for choosing to use "illegal" substances will also be smashing their livers with alcohol which is more detrimental to both themselves and society than a lot of other drugs on a weekly or often daily basis.

Just because it is legal they feel like they are fine to not do their own independent research into what these things actually do to them and how fucking addictive they are.

[–] SexualPolytope@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 3 weeks ago

They're just outsourcing their ethics.

[–] ShepherdPie@midwest.social 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I still see people parroting these narratives about stuff like weed even after it has been legalized. Some people are too far down the propaganda rabbit hole.

[–] imogen_underscore@hexbear.net 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

just conversely, I think people were a bit too convinced that weed is totally harmless for a while there. i think in more recent years there's been some healthy pushback on that and people understand the science a bit better. obviously it should still be legal.

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[–] averyminya@beehaw.org 38 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

As opposed to everyone else calling them bootlickers, I think there is likely a subset of people like this who are not considering piracy against the big corporations as unethical, but the "trickle down effect" of piracy towards smaller business/individuals.

For example, if you were to pirate Starfield, no one would really care. If you were to pirate something like BlackOps, most people wouldn't care (and those that do are corporate bootlickers). However, what about pirating indie games, or music VST's, or circumventing a patreon from someone with under 100 supporters?

There's two camps when I see anti-piracy comments; the bootlickers, and those that have the idea that pirates pirate everything relentlessly. The fact of the matter is that piracy does not hurt big corporations, but we cannot say that is also true for small developers publishing their game on their own, and vocal anti-piracy, or rather artist-in-mind individuals, will let the world know that we should support independent artsits and not pirate.

Now, whether or not indie games are getting pirated is a whole different story. And really, what this comes down to is just having the opportunity to purchase in a way that supports the pirates ease of access.

Also, it completely ignores the ethical aspect of piracy which is why support a company that doesn't have your interests at the forefront of its business practices. Which is a very similar reason to decide to not pirate -- I enjoy It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, I would like to see more if it, I will pay Hulu and watch the show to tell them to make more IASIP.

If you like something, don't pirate it if you want more of it. It's actually very simple. If you do like it but can't support it for personal reasons, don't expect to get more of it.

Which of course, for the anti-piracy crowd is another sentence for, "you didn't pay to watch it so they cancelled my favorite show!"

Tl;DR - A poor crossover between an individuals enjoyment of corporate content and an supporting independent artists living wage.

[–] jjlinux@lemmy.ml 7 points 3 weeks ago

This is the best insight on this subject I've seen in years. Good stuff.

[–] frauddogg@hexbear.net 28 points 3 weeks ago

Capitalism does a very good job at making people who do not and never will hold capital into sheepdogs for the cause. You get someone addicted enough to your slop, they'll advertise for you, they'll evangelize for you, they'll even come report to you who didn't pay 'their fair share' for entry.

They're well-trained dogs, incog. Might as well ask why a dog chases cars.

[–] SexualPolytope@lemmy.sdf.org 26 points 3 weeks ago

There's propaganda, definitely. Also, there are people who simply don't care what they watch. They'll just open Netflix and watch whatever they see on the home screen. It's hard for them to understand why I might wanna watch some Iranian movie from the 80s.

[–] Rob200@lemmings.world 18 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

For me i'm always hearing people complain about these companies bad practices. What you hear is based off of who you listen to.

Alot of "official sources" are actually owned by alot of forprofit corporations, so of course you're going to hear piracy bad from those outlets.

But if you follow some youtubers, like Yongyea, you will find voices that actively call out companies like Nintendo and ea's bad practices.

[–] GenderIsOpSec@hexbear.net 16 points 3 weeks ago

hell yeah i'm the villain of the story, and i love being immoral sickubus

[–] Rekorse@sh.itjust.works 14 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

I can hate bad corporate practices and also think that piracy is stealing. They aren't mutually exclusive.

Why do people seem like they hate pirates more, to you? Likely a bias because you are a pirate, and not working for a corporation.

In my opinion I hear more critiques of big business than of piracy. I also dont find these threads full of people saying negative things about piracy, but thats a matter of perspective.

I also pirate, but theres a reason I'd rather pay for it if I can afford it.

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[–] ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml 14 points 3 weeks ago

People buy into the BS sold by companies, they eat it all up without thinking twice about it. It's easier to point fingers at each other than at companies when companies are paying so much money to attack end-users.

[–] Adkml@hexbear.net 10 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Because if you aren't the bad guys then they're just essentially the low level stooges of the evil mastermind just doing mundane evil shit for no discernable reason.

Where as if you're the bad guy they're virtuous principled people just doing what's right (allowing them to have complete dominion over the moral high ground)

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[–] Greyghoster@aussie.zone 10 points 3 weeks ago

It’s law and order with a bit of “thou shall not steal”. There’re people who never question the root cause.

[–] sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 8 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Its fanboy/girlism.

If you pirate content from their favorite author/artist/producer/whatever, basically all of their screeching comes down to a hysterical emotional response that you are hurting a person or group that they worship as God.

They just learn rhetoric to justify their emotions as a side effect, a consequence of wanting to be able to argue against the bad mean people that are hurting their favorite creatives.

They are naive, ignorant or misinformed, immature... usually believing in some kind 'just world' type worldview where everything is fair and square actually if you just follow the rules.

They don't understand that the actual 'losses' from piracy are far, far smaller than whatever the RIAA or game studios say it is.

They don't understand that the people who actually create or perform the art basically get paid a tiny fraction of what their labels or corporate overlords make.

They don't understand that some people are actually poor, and the poor deserve art as well.

They don't understand that when a reasonable cost forma product with reasonable ownership rights exist, a great, great many will prefer a streamlined but slightly costly method over a complex but monetarily costless method.

They don't understand that you don't really own anything which you can't use or view or listen to as you please without relying on some proprietary other system which may just poof that ability out of existence one day, without refunding you.

[–] Nytixus@kbin.melroy.org 8 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Because they're consoomers. Consoomers don't like people who supposedly threaten their product that they shall consoom later.

And consoomers don't want to make the hand that feeds them angry so they'll buy into any and every lie that's been pitched for years about piracy.

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[–] Petter1@lemm.ee 6 points 3 weeks ago

Many think streaming services went more expensive because of piracy ( less people paying for same content = content price needs to be higher, where I believe it is other way around (higher price for less content = more pirates).

The market of distribution of films and series is just fucked. The fight with competitors using exclusive content leads to worst way of distribution since company with exclusive content has monopoly of that content. Streaming services should not be the one owning the content but should be in competition with other distributors offering the same content.

I think the politics have forgotten that we need at least social capitalism if we not want to create cyberpunk dystopia.

[–] antlion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

It’s because they are paying money for something and you’re getting a better deal. See that’s not fair. Same reason vegans hate on omnivores - they’ve taken the high road and the benefits are small while the cost is high. They tell themselves that their money is going to the artists. And if you believe that, then piracy is harming artists in a very direct way.

[–] Boomkop3@reddthat.com 9 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

When Netflix was just in, their subscribers got the better deal. But currently, tech companies are doing their best to squeeze customers dry for every cent.

Tech corps made the deal bad, piracy didn't change

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[–] Angel@hexbear.net 6 points 3 weeks ago (41 children)

Same reason vegans hate on omnivores - they’ve taken the high road and the benefits are small while the cost is high.

This "vegans have a superiority complex" take is a thought-terminating cliché ultimately rooted in projection. Since vegans make you feel self-conscious about the unethicality of your carnist tendencies, you divert to accusations of a "superiority complex" when that is just the result of you internally grappling with the cognitive dissonance you have when it comes to funding animal exploitation that you have no proper justification for.

Veganism is a justice movement, and vegans express disdain for non-vegans because they often double down on their oppressive tendencies that keep animals enslaved, exploited, and slaughtered. I don't think I'm superior to you because, just like me, you have the capacity to understand why you shouldn't support the oppression of sentient beings. Not only do you have the capacity to understand it, but you can take that to its logical conclusion and live in a way that is in accordance with said understanding.

Also, the framing is off here. A principled ethical vegan doesn't see veganism as a "benefit;" we see it as a moral obligation and baseline. Saying that veganism comes with "benefits" is like saying that refraining from calling racial minorities ethnic slurs comes with "benefits," when it's actually just basic decency toward BIPOC.

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[–] ContrarianTrail@lemm.ee 5 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (5 children)

I think piracy is immoral but I still partake in it and I don't hate anyone for doing so.

It's like eating meat.

[–] Are_Euclidding_Me@hexbear.net 9 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Why do you think piracy is immoral?

[–] ContrarianTrail@lemm.ee 8 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

The only reason there’s content for us to pirate is because there are still people paying for it. If it weren’t for them, nobody would be spending millions on new movies or games. They’re the ones funding our content, and we’re just freeriding.

I think a good measure for morality is to imagine wether the world would be a better place if everyone acted as I do. In this case, I don't think it would.

[–] Are_Euclidding_Me@hexbear.net 15 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

That's a common misconception. But it's not true. Artists will keep making art whether they're paid or not. Anti-piracy rhetoric tends to come from large corporations (AAA game studios, movie studios, publishing houses, record labels) who demand ever-increasing profits, not from the artists themselves. The people who actually do the work to make games, movies, songs, books, whatever are basically never well-paid, instead their corporate overlords make all the profit and pay the people who actually make the art you enjoy as little as they can possibly get away with, just as with every other job under capitalism.

Pirating media does absolutely no harm unless you're pirating from a small indie creator. But if you just want to play the latest Ubisoft slop or watch the latest Marvel movie, go ahead and pirate. The money you'd spend on them go straight into the pockets of wealthy executives, not to the artists who do the work.

[–] ContrarianTrail@lemm.ee 8 points 3 weeks ago (6 children)

I think it's objectively a true statement that the vast majority of big budget hollywood movies, video games and TV-series would stop existing if nobody was paying for them.

Obviously not all media would go away. I've never gotten paid for my photography or YouTube videos because I'm not making them for money. Same applies to a ton of other content creators as well.

[–] Are_Euclidding_Me@hexbear.net 6 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

I agree we probably wouldn't get any more Assassin's Creed or Deadpool and Wolverine. Very likely those kinds of media would die out in a world where no one pays for media. I have a hard time saying that's a bad thing. We'd instead have more weird little indie projects, which are so, so much better in every way. But sure, if you feel morally queasy about "stealing" (it's not stealing, it's copying) from giant corporations who make artistically bankrupt crap, I'm not going to convince you otherwise, and it would be a waste of my time to try and do so.

Maybe I should point out here that sometimes I do go out of my way to pay for media (especially games) when I don't have to. I bought Dwarf Fortress on Steam, even though the devs give it away for free and I donated to them a couple times before they released it on Steam. They are living off the money people pay for Dwarf Fortress and I'm so glad they're able to do so. I also bought my sister a copy of Pathologic 2 she has never (and probably will never) play because I bought my copy on sale and loved it and felt bad that I hadn't paid full price to a dev team that put their heart and soul into the game and had it sell abysmally for some reason. (Side note, play Pathologic 2, it's good!) I bought the Celeste soundtrack from Lena Raine's bandcamp because I love it so much, even though it's extremely easy to find and I've actually lost access to my bandcamp account.

I guess I'm saying there's nuance here and I like it when actual artists who make good art are paid. It's just that in our current society, buying a DVD or paying for Netflix or paying for Xbox gamepass or anything like that doesn't benefit the artists, the vast majority of any money you spend to acquire media goes straight to wealthy executives and I just don't see anything wrong with not giving them more money than they're already getting.

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[–] imogen_underscore@hexbear.net 6 points 3 weeks ago

piracy is moral and should be encouraged actually

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