this post was submitted on 29 Jan 2025
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The narrative that OpenAI, Microsoft, and freshly minted White House “AI czar” David Sacks are now pushing to explain why DeepSeek was able to create a large language model that outpaces OpenAI’s while spending orders of magnitude less money and using older chips is that DeepSeek used OpenAI’s data unfairly and without compensation. Sound familiar?

Both Bloomberg and the Financial Times are reporting that Microsoft and OpenAI have been probing whether DeepSeek improperly trained the R1 model that is taking the AI world by storm on the outputs of OpenAI models.

It is, as many have already pointed out, incredibly ironic that OpenAI, a company that has been obtaining large amounts of data from all of humankind largely in an “unauthorized manner,” and, in some cases, in violation of the terms of service of those from whom they have been taking from, is now complaining about the very practices by which it has built its company.

OpenAI is currently being sued by the New York Times for training on its articles, and its argument is that this is perfectly fine under copyright law fair use protections.

“Training AI models using publicly available internet materials is fair use, as supported by long-standing and widely accepted precedents. We view this principle as fair to creators, necessary for innovators, and critical for US competitiveness,” OpenAI wrote in a blog post. In its motion to dismiss in court, OpenAI wrote “it has long been clear that the non-consumptive use of copyrighted material (like large language model training) is protected by fair use.”

OpenAI argues that it is legal for the company to train on whatever it wants for whatever reason it wants, then it stands to reason that it doesn’t have much of a leg to stand on when competitors use common strategies used in the world of machine learning to make their own models.

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[–] PrivacyDingus@lemmy.world 17 points 14 hours ago
[–] Rooty@lemmy.world 32 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

I love how die hard free market defenders turn into fuming protectionists the second their hegemony is threatened.

[–] CitizenKong@lemmy.world 7 points 15 hours ago

Tale as old as capitalism.

[–] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 18 points 16 hours ago

Intellectual property theft for me but not for thee!

[–] Critical_Thinker@lemm.ee 13 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

It's a shame that you can't copyright the output of AI, isn't it?

[–] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 8 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

Trump executive order on the copyrightability of AI output in 3...

[–] vrighter@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 15 hours ago

so? it won't have any effect on china, because last i checked, us laws apply only in the us

[–] whostosay@lemmy.world 103 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] whostosay@lemmy.world 6 points 15 hours ago (1 children)
[–] riot@slrpnk.net 2 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Security? We don’t need no security!

[–] whostosay@lemmy.world 2 points 15 hours ago

You get a free database, and you get free database, and you get a free database! EVERYBODY GETS A FREE DATABASE

Oprahbees.gif

[–] marcyiu@lemmy.sdf.org 33 points 22 hours ago

the Chinese realised OpenAI forgot to open source their model and methodology so they just open sourced it for them 😂

[–] maplebar@lemmy.world 88 points 1 day ago (3 children)

If these guys thought they could out-bootleg the fucking Chinese then I have an unlicensed t-shirt of Nicky Mouse with their name on it.

[–] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 17 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The thing is chinese did not just bootleg... they took what was out there and made it better.

Their shit is now likely objectively "better" (TBD tho we need sometime)... American parasites in shambles asking Daddy sam to intervene after they already block nvidia GPUs and shit.

Still got cucked and now crying about it to the world. Pathetic.

[–] atrielienz@lemmy.world 3 points 19 hours ago

They also already rolled back Biden admin's order for AI protections. So they don't even have the benefit of those. There's supposedly a Trump admin AI order now in place but it doesn't have the same scope at all. So Altman and pals may just be SOL. There's no regulatory body to tell except the courts and China literally doesn't care about those.

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[–] Sgt_choke_n_stroke@lemmy.world 201 points 1 day ago
[–] nightwatch_admin@feddit.nl 261 points 1 day ago (20 children)

It is effing hilarious. First, OpenAI & friends steal creative works to “train” their LLMs. Then they are insanely hyped for what amounts to glorified statistics, get “valued” at insane amounts while burning money faster than a Californian forest fire. Then, a competitor appears that has the same evil energy but slightly better statistics.. bam. A trillion of “value” just evaporates as if it never existed.
And then suddenly people are complaining that DeepSuck is “not privacy friendly” and stealing from OpenAI. Hahaha. Fuck this timeline.

[–] Sanctus@lemmy.world 80 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It never did exist. This is the problem with the stock market.

[–] Ulrich@feddit.org 43 points 1 day ago (19 children)

That's why "value" is in quotes. It's not that it didn't exist, is just that it's purely speculative.

Hell Nvidia's stock plummeted as well, which makes no sense at all, considering Deepseek needs the same hardware as ChatGPT.

Stock investing is just gambling on whatever is public opinion, which is notoriously difficult because people are largely dumb and irrational.

[–] independantiste@sh.itjust.works 21 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Hell Nvidia's stock plummeted as well, which makes no sense at all, considering Deepseek needs the same hardware as ChatGPT.

It's the same hardware, the problem for them is that deepseek found a way to train their AI for much cheaper using a lot less than the hundreds of thousands of GPUs from Nvidia that openai, meta, xAi, anthropic etc. uses

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[–] Xanthobilly@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago

You know what else isn’t privacy friendly? Like all of social media.

[–] teft@lemmy.world 20 points 1 day ago (3 children)

I hear tulip bulbs are a good investment...

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[–] boredtortoise@lemm.ee 19 points 1 day ago

Capitalism basics, competition of exploitation

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[–] fallowseed@lemmy.world 6 points 17 hours ago

everyone concerned about their privacy going to china-- look at how easy it is to get it from the hands of our overlord spymasters who've already snatched it from us.

[–] AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world 75 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children)

DeepSeek’s specific trained model is immaterial—they could take it down tomorrow and never provide access again, and the damage to OpenAI’s business would already be done.

DeepSeek’s model is just a proof-of-concept—the point is that any organization with a few million dollars and some (hopefully less-problematical) training data can now make their own model competitive with OpenAI’s.

[–] Zetta@mander.xyz 32 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Deepseek can't take down the model, it's already been published and is mostly open source. Open source llms are the way, fuck closedAI

[–] AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world 16 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Right—by “take it down” I just meant take down online access to their own running instance of it.

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... assuming deepseek is telling the truth, something they have plenty of incentives to lie about

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[–] Mangoholic@lemmy.ml 17 points 22 hours ago

Yes get f*ed you creedy bastards.

[–] owenfromcanada@lemmy.world 95 points 1 day ago (4 children)
[–] MysticKetchup@lemmy.world 39 points 1 day ago (5 children)

I feel like I didn't appreciate this movie enough when I first watched it but it only gets better as I get older

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[–] BertramDitore@lemm.ee 66 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Corporate media take note. This is how you do reality-based reporting. None of the both-sides bullshit trying to justify or make excuses, just laughing in the face of absurd hypocrisy. This is a well-respected journalist confronting a truth we can all plainly see. See? The truth doesn’t need to be boring or bland or “balanced” by disingenuous attempts to see the other side.

I will explain what this means in a moment, but first: Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahhahahahahahahahahahahaha. It is, as many have already pointed out, incredibly ironic that OpenAI, a company that has been obtaining large amounts of data from all of humankind largely in an “unauthorized manner,” and, in some cases, in violation of the terms of service of those from whom they have been taking from, is now complaining about the very practices by which it has built its company.

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[–] TipRing@lemmy.world 19 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 2 points 17 hours ago

There's plenty of honor in Deepseek releasing open source.

[–] humble_pete_digger@lemm.ee 29 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Thank you China.
No for real - it's either EU or frigging china that helps us with these oligarch overlords

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[–] dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 21 points 1 day ago

Regardless of how OpenAI procured their data, I'm absolutely shocked that a company from China would obtain data unauthorized from a company in another country.

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