this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2024
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[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 41 points 6 days ago (1 children)
[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 16 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I've been hearing about the imminent crash for the last two years. New money keeps getting injected into the system. The bubble can't deflate while both the public and private sector have an unlimited lung capacity to keep puffing into it. FFS, bitcoin is on a tear right now, just because Trump won the election.

This bullshit isn't going away. Its only going to get forced down our throats harder and harder, until we swallow or choke on it.

[–] thatKamGuy@sh.itjust.works 4 points 5 days ago (1 children)

With the right level of Government support, bubbles can seemingly go on for literal decades. Case in point, Australian housing since the late 90s has been on an uninterrupted tear (yes, even in ‘08 and ‘20).

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[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 56 points 6 days ago (2 children)

It's so funny how all this is only a problem within a capitalist frame of reference.

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[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 45 points 6 days ago (14 children)

Thank fuck. Can we have cheaper graphics cards again please?

I'm sure a RTX 4090 is very impressive, but it's not £1800 impressive.

[–] lorty@lemmy.ml 10 points 5 days ago (11 children)

Just wait for the 5090 prices...

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[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 7 points 6 days ago

Sorry, crypto is back in season.

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[–] OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml 13 points 5 days ago

I work with people who work in this field. Everyone knows this, but there's also an increased effort in improvements all across the stack, not just the final LLM. I personally suspect the current generation of LLMs is at its peak, but with each breakthrough the technology will climb again.

Put differently, I still suspect LLMs will be at least twice as good in 10 years.

[–] dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 13 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Welcome to the top of the sigmoid curve.

If you were wondering what 1999 felt like WRT to the internet, well, here we are. The Matrix was still fresh in everyone's mind and a lot of online tech innovation kinda plateaued, followed by some "market adjustments."

[–] Hackworth@lemmy.world 6 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

I think it's more likely a compound sigmoid (don't Google that). LLMs are composed of distinct technologies working together. As we've reached the inflection point of the scaling for one, we've pivoted implementations to get back on track. Notably, context windows are no longer an issue. But the most recent pivot came just this week, allowing for a huge jump in performance. There are more promising stepping stones coming into view. Is the exponential curve just a series of sigmoids stacked too close together? In any case, the article's correct - just adding more compute to the same exact implementation hasn't enabled scaling exponentially.

[–] randon31415@lemmy.world 30 points 6 days ago (5 children)

The hype should go the other way. Instead of bigger and bigger models that do more and more - have smaller models that are just as effective. Get them onto personal computers; get them onto phones; get them onto Arduino minis that cost $20 - and then have those models be as good as the big LLMs and Image gen programs.

[–] Yaky@slrpnk.net 23 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Other than with language models, this has already happened: Take a look at apps such as Merlin Bird ID (identifies birds fairly well by sound and somewhat okay visually), WhoBird (identifies birds by sound, ) Seek (visually identifies plants, fungi, insects, and animals). All of them work offline. IMO these are much better uses of ML than spammer-friendly text generation.

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[–] rumba@lemmy.zip 10 points 6 days ago

This has already started to happen. The new llama3.2 model is only 3.7GB and it WAAAAY faster than anything else. It can thow a wall of text at you in just a couple of seconds. You're still not running it on $20 hardware, but you no longer need a 3090 to have something useful.

[–] dustyData@lemmy.world 7 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

Well, you see, that's the really hard part of LLMs. Getting good results is a direct function of the size of the model. The bigger the model, the more effective it can be at its task. However, there's something called compute efficient frontier (technical but neatly explained video about it). Basically you can't make a model more effective at their computations beyond said linear boundary for any given size. The only way to make a model better, is to make it larger (what most mega corps have been doing) or radically change the algorithms and method underlying the model. But the latter has been proving to be extraordinarily hard. Mostly because to understand what is going on inside the model you need to think in rather abstract and esoteric mathematical principles that bend your mind backwards. You can compress an already trained model to run on smaller hardware. But to train them, you still need the humongously large datasets and power hungry processing. This is compounded by the fact that larger and larger models are ever more expensive while providing rapidly diminishing returns. Oh, and we are quickly running out of quality usable data, so shoveling more data after a certain point starts to actually provide worse results unless you dedicate thousands of hours of human labor producing, collecting and cleaning the new data. That's all even before you have to address data poisoning, where previously LLM generated data is fed back to train a model but it is very hard to prevent it from devolving into incoherence after a couple of generations.

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[–] recapitated@lemmy.world 22 points 6 days ago

I think I've heard about enough of experts predicting the future lately.

[–] jpablo68@infosec.pub 10 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I just want a portable self hosted LLM for specific tasks like programming or language learning.

[–] plixel@programming.dev 9 points 5 days ago (1 children)

You can install Ollama in a docker container and use that to install models to run locally. Some are really small and still pretty effective, like Llama 3.2 is only 3B and some are as little as 1B. It can be accessed through the terminal or you can use something like OpenWeb UI to have a more "ChatGPT" like interface.

[–] cybersandwich@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

I have a few LLMs running locally. I don't have an array of 4090s to spare so I am limited to the smaller models 8B and whatnot.

They definitely aren't as good as anything you get remotely. It's more private and controlled but it's much less useful (I've found) than any of the other models.

[–] CerealKiller01@lemmy.world 31 points 6 days ago (16 children)

Huh?

The smartphone improvements hit a rubber wall a few years ago (disregarding folding screens, that compose a small market share, improvement rate slowed down drastically), and the industry is doing fine. It's not growing like it use to, but that just means people are keeping their smartphones for longer periods of time, not that people stopped using them.

Even if AI were to completely freeze right now, people will continue using it.

Why are people reacting like AI is going to get dropped?

[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 19 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

People are dumping billions of dollars into it, mostly power, but it cannot turn profit.

So the companies who, for example, revived a nuclear power facility in order to feed their machine with ever diminishing returns of quality output are going to shut everything down at massive losses and countless hours of human work and lifespan thrown down the drain.

This will have an economic impact quite large as many newly created jobs go up in smoke and businesses who structured around the assumption of continued availability of high end AI need to reorganize or go out of business.

Search up the Dot Com Bubble.

[–] theherk@lemmy.world 18 points 6 days ago

Because in some eyes, infinite rapid growth is the only measure of success.

[–] pdlorah@lemmy.ca 11 points 6 days ago (1 children)

People pay real money for smartphones.

[–] Petter1@lemm.ee 10 points 6 days ago

People pay real Money for AIaaS as well..

[–] drake@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 5 days ago (2 children)

It’s absurdly unprofitable. OpenAI has billions of dollars in debt. It absolutely burns through energy and requires a lot of expensive hardware. People aren’t willing to pay enough to make it break even, let alone profit

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[–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 8 points 5 days ago

I hope it all burns.

[–] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 20 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Marcus is right, incremental improvements in AIs like ChatGPT will not lead to AGI and were never on that course to begin with. What LLMs do is fundamentally not "intelligence", they just imitate human response based on existing human-generated content. This can produce usable results, but not because the LLM has any understanding of the question. Since the current AI surge is based almost entirely on LLMs, the delusion that the industry will soon achieve AGI is doomed to fall apart - but not until a lot of smart speculators have gotten in and out and made a pile of money.

[–] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 8 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Short on the AI stocks before it crash!

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 16 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.

A. Gary Shilling

[–] Defaced@lemmy.world 16 points 6 days ago

This is why you're seeing news articles from Sam Altman saying that AGI will blow past us without any societal impact. He's trying to lessen the blow of the bubble bursting for AI/ML.

[–] KeenFlame@feddit.nu 17 points 6 days ago (3 children)

I am so tired of the ai hype and hate. Please give me my gen art interest back please just make it obscure again to program art I beg of you

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[–] Etterra@lemmy.world 18 points 1 week ago

Good. I look forward to all these idiots finally accepting that they drastically misunderstood what LLMs actually are and are not. I know their idiotic brains are only able to understand simple concepts like "line must go up" and follow them like religious tenants though so I'm sure they'll waste everyone's time and increase enshitification with some other new bullshit once they quietly remove their broken (and unprofitable) AI from stuff.

[–] kromem@lemmy.world 5 points 5 days ago

Oh nice, another Gary Marcus "AI hitting a wall post."

Like his "Deep Learning Is Hitting a Wall" post on March 10th, 2022.

Indeed, not much has changed in the world of deep learning between spring 2022 and now.

No new model releases.

No leaps beyond what was expected.

\s

Gary Marcus is like a reverse Cassandra.

Consistently wrong, and yet regularly listened to, amplified, and believed.

[–] Mushroomm@sh.itjust.works 13 points 6 days ago

It's been 5 minutes since the new thing did a new thing. Is it the end?

[–] rational_lib@lemmy.world 11 points 6 days ago (13 children)

As I use copilot to write software, I have a hard time seeing how it'll get better than it already is. The fundamental problem of all machine learning is that the training data has to be good enough to solve the problem. So the problems I run into make sense, like:

  1. Copilot can't read my mind and figure out what I'm trying to do.
  2. I'm working on an uncommon problem where the typical solutions don't work
  3. Copilot is unable to tell when it doesn't "know" the answer, because of course it's just simulating communication and doesn't really know anything.

2 and 3 could be alleviated, but probably not solved completely with more and better data or engineering changes - but obviously AI developers started by training the models on the most useful data and strategies that they think work best. 1 seems fundamentally unsolvable.

I think there could be some more advances in finding more and better use cases, but I'm a pessimist when it comes to any serious advances in the underlying technology.

[–] ggppjj@lemmy.world 13 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (4 children)

Not copilot, but I run into a fourth problem:
4. The LLM gets hung up on insisting that a newer feature of the language I'm using is wrong and keeps focusing on "fixing" it, even though it has access to the newest correct specifications where the feature is explicitly defined and explained.

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[–] nl4real@lemmy.world 7 points 6 days ago

Fingers crossed.

[–] dog_@lemmy.world 6 points 6 days ago
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